Advice on inverter size

2oldman wrote:

wopachop wrote:
How clean of power does someone need to run a modern TV and some speakers and maybe the margarita blender?

I can't answer in specifics, but I can advise you to get a decent quality pure sine. They aren't that much more expensive, and everything works. Buy the product, not the price.

I would have to argue on this a bit.

You always paint with a pretty broad brush on this subject and it needs to be addressed.

There ARE "good" MSW inverters, there are BAD "MSW" inverters, "good" MSW inverters ARE NOT CHEAP!!!

There are ALSO "good" PSW and there ARE "bad" PSW inverters, "good" PSW inverters ARE NOT CHEAP!!!

I would in a heartbeat take a MORE EXPENSIVE MSW inverter over ANY CHEAP PSW INVERTER!

Buying a cheap inverter of either type is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Not "everything" also MUST be run on PSW, infact, ANY device using a SWITCHING POWER SUPPLY CAN AND WILL BE FINE WITH MSW. That covers about 99.9% of electronic equipment now days.

I have successfully used MSW inverters with TVs, Sat receivers, Stereos, computers, LED lights, CFL lights, drills and heck for kicks my home fridge conversion in my RV!

I ONLY use specific name brand MSW inverters and UPS units. UPS units like APC, Tripplite, Minuteman are all good quality well built UPS units.

For my home fridge conversion I am using a Tripplite PV1250 and it works flawlessly. That PV1250 is an heavy duty industrial built inverter which is a brute and has been designed to handle startup surges of induction motors.. It boasts a TEN MINUTE surge capacity of 2500W!!!

You will never find a cheapo PSW inverter with that kind of surge capacity rating, they are ashamed of their surge TIME ratings so they do not publish it but it will be less than micro seconds..

YES, all of those names I mentioned are not your run of the mill cheapo MSW inverters, they cost MORE than all of those real cheaply made no name Chinese import PSW inverters.

With good quality MSW inverters TVs will work fine, however some poorer quality MSW inverters may not filter the output as well and the result may be a light crawling noise line bar in the video. It won't hurt the TV, just a bit annoying but heck even with the cheapo PSW inverters you may end up with the same issue.

The only few caveats with MSW is some devices like electronic controlled electric blankets/heating pads, crock pots, old fashioned analog electric clocks may not function correctly.. Most Microwave ovens will operate on MSW but may do so with reduced power (takes longer to heat) and the electronic digital clocks may not keep time.

wopachop wrote:
So besides price and having to run thicker wires, is there a negative to installing a 2000w inverter that will mostly supply 200w of power?

Trying to be realistic if i would ever want to run a kitchen appliance without firing up the generator.

Yes
It has a higher drain power use at low loads than the smaller 400w inverter
My 2000w PSW inverter has an 800ma AKA 0.8 amps
In standby mode with nothing plugged in our connected
With 'my' normal loads TV, fañ, USB chargers , i average 2 - 3 amps more load than what the device loads are,
It's easy for me to see, since i have both AC power meter and DC batteries power meter monitor

I have the big one because i set it up whole house and every duplex outlet is powered, and i use the MW without starting the generator , make coffee, keep the Roomba charged, etc..
But there is a power price to pay
I can go minimalist turn things off, if SHTF ever happens

"How clean of power does someone need to run a modern TV and some speakers and maybe the margarita blender?"

That could turn on the definition of "clean".

In terms of inverters, I have had no trouble with MSW for doing those kind of things. PSW is required for a few special things like electric blankets and other things as listed in the guides for the MSW inverters where they warn about that.

Microwaves are more complicated, where some don't run on MSW but some do, just slower. Some work and run slower making horrible noises, same noises as they do on PSW that has too low a voltage where the 120v supply is on too long an extension or overloaded in a busy park.

The MWs I have had in the last 15 years do ok on MSW, just taking longer to "cook", but even taking longer they draw fewer amps because of the way they get their input from AC, so they have the inverter pull fewer AH from the battery bank to get it done. (more H but less A in the AH where A counts for more )

Some info on inverters and dirty power and MWs and TV picture and radio interference from the 1990s does not seem to apply so much these days it seems. EG the OEM 1990 Dometic RV MW in our C does not run at all on MSW, but does fine with PSW. The MW we had in the 2003 5er had no issues with MSW except to run a bit slower. So they did something back then to the newer MWs.

wopachop wrote:
How clean of power does someone need to run a modern TV and some speakers and maybe the margarita blender?

I can't answer in specifics, but I can advise you to get a decent quality pure sine. They aren't that much more expensive, and everything works. Buy the product, not the price.

Here is a question in disguise. In hopes to learn about the cheaper knock off brands.

How clean of power does someone need to run a modern TV and some speakers and maybe the margarita blender?

Would love to watch a video on sine waves. Im better with visual. I do have basic understanding off wavelengths. The idea of alternating current going back and forth still trips me out.

Ive been blasted a few times with 277v and a whole office full of lights behind it. Worked for a company as an electrician but never took classes on theory. Im just smart enough to understand i dont know squat about how electricity really works. The people who figured it out hundreds of years ago are truly amazing humans. Bet they got blasted a few times as well!!

Somewhere in the archives is my test on small vs big inverters for amps draw in standby and when running a TV. It turned out that there was no advantage in having the small inverter.

The big inverter on short fat wires had less voltage drop and the small inverter actually pulled more amps to run the same TV on its long skinny wires as typical of a small inverter installation.

Standby draw with either was trivial. However, it is not trivial when the big inverter is part of an inverter/charger. Those things have a 12v demand just to fire it up and keep it running with all its fancy features that a simple big inverter does not have.

So be careful when saying "2000w inverter" that you are talking about an inverter or an inverter/charger.

As mentioned, we leave the 2000w PSW inverter on the whole time and the draw from that is trivial (as seen.not seen on the Trimetric) We do turn off the loads on the inverter when not in use, such as the TV by turning off the power bar the Tv is plugged into. The microwave display stays on (also trivial) and even a 120v clock radio (trivial). It is just so handy to have the outlets always live and not have to remember to turn on the inverter before doing somnething that needs it.

If your RV is not set up (or cannot be set up) that way or your choice of RV lifestyle is to enjoy going without some conveniences while camping, that's fine too.

JimK-NY wrote:
If I could not figure out a way of easily making perfect coffee without an inverter, I should probably just stay home or visit an RV park with hook ups.

Probably should.

The bigger the inverter, the more loss of power. Inverters lose about 15% of their output in heat. Inverters lose power even if they are just turned on and not in use. If you have a big battery bank and a large solar system perhaps the losses mean nothing to you. I travel in a smaller rig and try to be efficient. I rarely need an inverter. My TV has never been used but it is 12volt. My laptops charge with 12 volts. My wife's CPAP is 12 volts. Cellphones charge with 12 volts. If I could not figure out a way of easily making perfect coffee without an inverter, I should probably just stay home or visit an RV park with hook ups.

Look at that thing!!!! Super cool man.

If you are worried about $500... best to stick with the 400w.

My GoPower is $800 + the extras to get it connected.

https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/go-power-gp-sw2000-12-inverter