Autoformer/Surge Suppressor

popeyemth wrote:
In the market for a surge suppressor and find that the Hughes RV2130 Autoformer says it's also a surge suppressor .
Does this mean there is no need to have both?
Thanks,Mike

Not a joke...

Call Hughes, meaning telephone, vocal, voice, not email, and ask for TECH. Ask them to define SURGE SUPPRESSOR, and don't fall for Herb Tarlek answers like "Oh it has stuff inside to filter bad electricity"

Does the autoformer have MOVs?
Does the autoformer have avalanche rectifiers? Transient Voltage Protectors they are denoted "TVS"

If the answer to these questions is vague, so is the product. Take it for what's it's worth. You will end up with partial voltage correction and minimal "surge protection"

Canadian Rainbirds wrote:
Clearly and concisely stated!

But not entirely correctly. ;)

I owned a portable TRC 34370 Surge Guard (now replaced by the improved 34380) and time delay is fixed at 128" which cannot be changed. The hardwire version is also set at 128" and AFAIK cannot be changed either. I now have a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C hardwire surge protector with delay that can be changed from 15" to 136" by removing a small jumper inside the unit. Since I would like the ability to run the 15" delay when not using A/C but quickly switch to the longer 136" delay when I am I removed the jumper and wired a SPST switch across the jumper contacts so now changing the delay is as simple as throwing the switch. Delay for the portable EMS-PT30C is fixed at 136" and cannot be changed. As far as A/C is concerned, some models do feature their own built in delay, some such as my Dometic Brisk II do not so I always run my EMS-HW30C with the longer delay when running A/C.

Clearly and concisely stated!

popeyemth wrote:
In the market for a surge suppressor and find that the Hughes RV2130 Autoformer says it's also a surge suppressor .
Does this mean there is no need to have both?
Thanks,Mike

NO, it does not. There are two different devices that are CALLED surge supressors. One is a spike supressor.. This simply means they wire MOVs (metal Oxcide Varisistors) across the power lines so that if the voltage SPIKES, it gets shunted.. These devices are sold all over as Surge Supressors.

you go to the store and get one of those six outlet power strips called a "Surge Supressor" that's what they are.. You get a "Whole House" Surge Supressor you wire to your breaker box, that's what it is.

And that is what is built into the Hughes autoformer. and many other devices.. By the way you can't reasonably have too much of this kind of protection (I mean you can but you'd need thousands of them to be too much)

But a true SURGE (Sustained high voltage lasting for 1 second or more) and with MOV's it is going to sound a bit like Independence Day Evening fireworks.. I know, Been there when it happened.

A RV-Surge protector is a whole nutter can of electroincs.. YES, it does contain even more MOV's (As I said, a good thing to have more of) but it also contains sensors and a computer.

The sensors generally monitor Current (For your info, it does not care about current but it monitors it and displays it for you)
"Connection" (more on that later)
Voltage and frequency If too high/low the device will shut off power to your RV rather than risk burn out of assorted devices.. Electronics generally start smoking long about 150 volts,, The Protector shuts down around 130 to protect them.. Motors smoke at around 100, so 105 or 108 gets you shut down as well.

Frequency is not often a problem on mains power, but may be with a cheap generator, and can damage SOME electrnoics.

Likewise waveform but i do not think they monitor that (My Prosine does but it's an inverter).

I mentioned Connections:

A 30 amp plug has \3 wires
White: Neutral
GREEN: Ground.. Neutral and Ground are bonded at the park end service panel so there should be near zero volts between these two.
Black (hot) This one should show 120 volts to either white or green.

The unit will report if the black and white are reversed, if the ground is open, (or the white is open) The only thing it will not report is an open black (Cause if the black is open it has no power to report with).

Another feature of the RV surge guards is a time iu timer.

We have, where I'm parked, had several "power flickers" this is where power is lost for like one second.. Well air conditioner and referigator compressors really do not care to be "hot started" that is shut off and re-started right away.. Which this does.

The Surge Guard (TRC) models keep you shut off just shy of 3 minutes when this happens. .The Progressive Industries models by default 15 seconds but you can change it to 2 1/2 minutes.

My A/Cs take another 30 seconds to kick in after power is restored (They too have timers) and that makes 3 minutes, the recommended minimum off time is 3 minutes.

Hi,

Is there a reason that something similar to this unit could not be used?

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-51110-SRG-Residential-Surge-Protection/dp/B00BV19IG4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457366997&sr=8-1&keywords=51110-SRG



They cost a whole $33

JoeH wrote:
It is my understanding that the Hughes autoformer ( at least the one I have ) has basic surge protection. But it essentially a one time deal, after that, back to the factory for work. I called them regarding the sequence of setup for the autoformer and my Progressive surge/voltage protection device. They recommended putting the autoformer in first so that it has the opportunity to raise the voltage if needed, but that left it exposed to spikes. I ended up getting a cheap spike protector in front of the autoformer, which then feeds into the progressive unit.

This is consistent with Hughes RV2130 online manual, page 5.

TechWriter wrote:

smkettner wrote:
I would not buy an autoformer for surge protection.

Ditto.

The Hughes autoformer manual hedges at just how much protection its autoformers offer: "Voltage booster with some surge and spike protection"

Exactly what does "some" mean? Hughes doesn't tell you.

It sounds like a Hughes autoformer has some surge protection, but no electrical fault protection (open neutral, open ground, etc).

Make that 3.

I have both. I hook them up shore > Hughes 50 amp > EMS-PT50C > ATS (Surge Guard 41260). This allows the autoformer to boost the volts before the EMS-PT50C shuts it down. I do not think the Hughes has enough surge suppression and the three together provide more than enough. Actually the SG 41260 does not provide enough surge protection, that is why I have the PI.

It is my understanding that the Hughes autoformer ( at least the one I have ) has basic surge protection. But it essentially a one time deal, after that, back to the factory for work. I called them regarding the sequence of setup for the autoformer and my Progressive surge/voltage protection device. They recommended putting the autoformer in first so that it has the opportunity to raise the voltage if needed, but that left it exposed to spikes. I ended up getting a cheap spike protector in front of the autoformer, which then feeds into the progressive unit.

smkettner wrote:
I would not buy an autoformer for surge protection.

Ditto.

The Hughes autoformer manual hedges at just how much protection its autoformers offer: "Voltage booster with some surge and spike protection"

Exactly what does "some" mean? Hughes doesn't tell you.

It sounds like a Hughes autoformer has some surge protection, but no electrical fault protection (open neutral, open ground, etc).

I would not buy an autoformer for surge protection.

I doubt any voltage regulator also offers true surge protection and certainly not protection from a variety of campground power post wiring errors. TRC in their owner's manual for their Model 10176 Voltage Regulator recommends using a surge protector without low / high voltage threshhold cutoff before the voltage regulator plus a full featured surge protector such as their Model 34370 (now discontinued and replaced with Model 34380) after the voltage regulator.

I can see why ... I bought a used TRC 10176 but the moment I plugged it in it became evident it was faulty. Opening the case revealed several melted parts on the circuit board so even though it was outputting voltage it wasn't being controlled properly. Turns out the original owner hadn't used any other protection for the voltage regulator itself and unquestionably this was the result. Fortunately for me he was an honourable person and after I sent him the affected circuit board he returned my cost of purchase. I've since decided I can live without voltage regulation but upgraded from a TRC 34370 Surge Guard to a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protector ... if incoming voltage drops to where the EMS cuts it off, so be it, I'll run on battery power 'til proper park power is restored.