Below is a link to an interesting thread on the Mike Holt electrical forum about whether or not GFCI's work properly as intended and if they're in compliance with UL. This may be of interest to RV-ers as we all have them and they do sometimes cause problems. Perhaps getting a GFCI tester would be a good thing to have.To quote the thread starter "LED indicators, SmartLock technology, internal self testing and the test/reset buttons do not accurately verify that a GFCI is functioning correctly. They do not tell you the speed at which a GFCI will trip, nor do they demonstrate that power has successfully been interrupted once the receptacle has tripped. Plugging in a load does not guarantee it either."Warning - it is 19 pages and nearly 200 posts long.Mike Holt forum GFCI discussionThe thread also points out that there is a revision to UL 943 effective June of last year requiring a self-test function and line-load reversal miswire function. If you are buying a new GFCI receptacle, you might want to check that it complies with the latest UL standard and not just that it says "UL listed". Begs the question - how many RVs purchased after June/2015 have GFCIs that comply with the latest revision? (Installers are permitted to install old stock tho.)I wonder how many 20 amp GFCIs in pedestals could be faulty?

it's probably true that the self test cannot guarantee interuption occurs as fast or faster than it should nor that it absolutely positively 100 percent verifies the circuit interuption. Kinda like you can't absolutely positively guarantee under all possible conditions that a normal breaker is absolutely guaranteed to trip on every overload it should trip on every time.But, when you hit the test button, if the GFI trips when you hit the button, that's very very very likely fast enough to protect you, and if your paranoid, you can always plug in a circuit tester to see it interupted the line.Likelyhood that it won't interupt is very very very small.And if that doesn't satisfy you, just plug in one of the external plug testers with a built in GFI test button and see if it opens the circuit.And if your worried about old std GFI's in the trailer, what about all the old std ones in your sticks and bricks house? Some of the early ones didn't interupt on a ground/neutral short, that was a later addition to the requirements.My experience is that when I've ever had an issue with a GFI it was that it was tripped and couldn't be reset, not the other way around would't trip on a GFI.

How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?I always treat power cables and cords as if they were live.If I have to connect or disconnect in wet conditions, I wear silicone oven mitts and rubber boots.I prop up any plugs for extension cords so they won't become immersed.Is this so difficult that fast acting gfci is a must do for protection?Last time I got shocked was in 1976 when I was installing a telephone cable and the phone happened to ring just as I was connecting the wires to the lightning suppressor.

pianotuna wrote:How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?I always treat power cables and cords as if they were live.If I have to connect or disconnect in wet conditions, I wear silicone oven mitts and rubber boots.I prop up any plugs for extension cords so they won't become immersed.Is this so difficult that fast acting gfci is a must do for protection?Last time I got shocked was in 1976 when I was installing a telephone cable and the phone happened to ring just as I was connecting the wires to the lightning suppressor.POTS line tip and ring can get ya. It also kills slugs if they get in the distribution box in the yard and start crawling across the terminals. which then ends up with lots of static on the line. and a mess to clean up.IMHO one of, if not the biggest plus to a GFCI is the protection it provides for little kids and what they may try to do around an outlet. And a GFCI does NOT guarantee protection from a shock. Only works if there is enough leakage current to ground. So...... put on the rubber boots, and get across the hot and neutral. Good chance a GFCI will not trip. If it doesn't see an imbalance of current between the hot and neutral, No trippy!

When I was a kid we had knob and tube wiring and we all lived. When we bought this house it had knob and tube wiring and we all lived. We updated it about 30 years ago and I'm not worried about a new standard.

pianotuna wrote:How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?I have, and in a situation where frankly I could have been electrocuted had the circumstances been only a little different.I had the sump pump in my basement fail to work properly (which has happened a few times for various reasons) and got an inch or so of water in the basement. As I was picking stuff up off the floor, I picked up an electric drill that I did not realize was still plugged in...and got a jolt. GFCIs are now required in basements, by the current code, but that was not required when my house was constructed. At any rate, standing in bare feet in water with an energized power tool, and/or then picking up said tool, could well lead to electrocution under the wrong circumstances.In my opinion, it would not be a bad thing to have GFCIs on every electric circuit in a house or RV, at least on every circuit that has an outlet or light with a removable bulb. They can and do save lives.

Can you trust the test & reset buttons on a GFCI?

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Oct 02, 2016
I've been shocked by European 220V few times.
It is pretty itchy, especially in humid weather.
In CA I had couple of situations, when standing on plastic bucket I was connecting outside light. With 3-way switches you are never sure if the light is on or off, but I always tap the wires before touching them.
So tap gave me no shock, allowing me to twist the first wires with my bare fingers and putting wire nut on it.
Than I put other wires together and the light come ON !!!
Standing on plastic bucket on dry ground I was like bird on a wire.
Anyway. New building codes made my putting AFCI in my new house.
Over the time I had them popping up. One turned out to act to my laptop charger.
The other would break with central vacuum.
So in the end I replaced $50 AFCI breakers with $4 traditional ones.
coolmom42
Explorer II
Oct 02, 2016
The biggest single hazard (IMHO) that GFI breakers protect against is the connection between small appliance and water..... so if your toaster falls in the sink you don't get shocked. OR if your child or grandchild decides to see if the hairdryer will blow bubbles. Thus the code requirements that receptacles above a countertop with a sink be GFI protected.
Tom_M1
Explorer
Oct 01, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?
I've been bit a few times. The last time was when I got across a GFCI protected circuit. Instead of good jolt it was a sting.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2016
while I practice care around electric systems, I'll agree with Drew E and disagree with Old Biscuit. Currently most every branch circuit in our house that supplies outlets lights etc. has GFI protection. The exceptions are the power to the fridge and freezer. That is because of the reasoanble possiblity of a false trip with leakage current in the motors/compressors. And my house 30A RV circuit also has a GFI breaker.

But then it's not just me in the house, it's DW, kids and Grandkids. And on more than one occasion I have done some stupid things around electric circuits, and other stuff. You never know when protection may help.
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Oct 01, 2016
I not have kids living with me or visiting.
I do NOT worry about getting shocked.........30 yrs operating power plants (24V DC up to 220KV AC) so I respect it when messing with it.

I remove GFCIs and replace with standard outlets.
DrewE
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?

I have, and in a situation where frankly I could have been electrocuted had the circumstances been only a little different.

I had the sump pump in my basement fail to work properly (which has happened a few times for various reasons) and got an inch or so of water in the basement. As I was picking stuff up off the floor, I picked up an electric drill that I did not realize was still plugged in...and got a jolt. GFCIs are now required in basements, by the current code, but that was not required when my house was constructed. At any rate, standing in bare feet in water with an energized power tool, and/or then picking up said tool, could well lead to electrocution under the wrong circumstances.

In my opinion, it would not be a bad thing to have GFCIs on every electric circuit in a house or RV, at least on every circuit that has an outlet or light with a removable bulb. They can and do save lives.
K_Charles
Explorer
Oct 01, 2016
When I was a kid we had knob and tube wiring and we all lived. When we bought this house it had knob and tube wiring and we all lived. We updated it about 30 years ago and I'm not worried about a new standard.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?

I always treat power cables and cords as if they were live.

If I have to connect or disconnect in wet conditions, I wear silicone oven mitts and rubber boots.

I prop up any plugs for extension cords so they won't become immersed.

Is this so difficult that fast acting gfci is a must do for protection?

Last time I got shocked was in 1976 when I was installing a telephone cable and the phone happened to ring just as I was connecting the wires to the lightning suppressor.

POTS line tip and ring can get ya.
It also kills slugs if they get in the distribution box in the yard and start crawling across the terminals.
which then ends up with lots of static on the line. and a mess to clean up.

IMHO one of, if not the biggest plus to a GFCI is the protection it provides for little kids and what they may try to do around an outlet.

And a GFCI does NOT guarantee protection from a shock. Only works if there is enough leakage current to ground. So...... put on the rubber boots, and get across the hot and neutral. Good chance a GFCI will not trip. If it doesn't see an imbalance of current between the hot and neutral, No trippy!
pianotuna
Nomad III
Oct 01, 2016
How many folks have actually gotten a shock from a non gfci connection?

I always treat power cables and cords as if they were live.

If I have to connect or disconnect in wet conditions, I wear silicone oven mitts and rubber boots.

I prop up any plugs for extension cords so they won't become immersed.

Is this so difficult that fast acting gfci is a must do for protection?

Last time I got shocked was in 1976 when I was installing a telephone cable and the phone happened to ring just as I was connecting the wires to the lightning suppressor.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2016
it's probably true that the self test cannot guarantee interuption occurs as fast or faster than it should nor that it absolutely positively 100 percent verifies the circuit interuption.

Kinda like you can't absolutely positively guarantee under all possible conditions that a normal breaker is absolutely guaranteed to trip on every overload it should trip on every time.

But, when you hit the test button, if the GFI trips when you hit the button, that's very very very likely fast enough to protect you, and if your paranoid, you can always plug in a circuit tester to see it interupted the line.

Likelyhood that it won't interupt is very very very small.

And if that doesn't satisfy you, just plug in one of the external plug testers with a built in GFI test button and see if it opens the circuit.

And if your worried about old std GFI's in the trailer, what about all the old std ones in your sticks and bricks house?

Some of the early ones didn't interupt on a ground/neutral short, that was a later addition to the requirements.

My experience is that when I've ever had an issue with a GFI it was that it was tripped and couldn't be reset, not the other way around would't trip on a GFI.

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