Caulking Removal...

westend wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

westend wrote:

marc515 wrote:
How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

Here are the datasheets: 3M 4000 UV

Geocel Proflex RV

MSDS Dicor lap sealant shows trade name to be Silaprene DC12345. Royal Adhesives RV Silaprene may be close in composition but who knows. Dicor doesn't list a technical data sheet.

MO is that any of these three would have excellent adhesion and offer strength/elongation for an RV. I do notice that folks using Dicor, especially the self-leveling, are renewing it every so often because it tends to crack.

If you look especially at the detailed specs for the 3M product and the apparant testing it has gone thru, I think that tells you a lot about which is the better adhesive/sealant along with marine applications being some of the most demanding. IMO this is a clear "head and shoulders" lead by 3M.

Larry

Might be. I've got a lot of respect for 3M products. I used Geocel 2300, the construction variety of their tripolymer sealants and am having no issues with it.

While a little beyond the topic here one of the biggest reasons that I will only use either the 3M Marine line of adhesives/caulks or Eternanbond on my trailer along with real butyl tape for the primary sealant is only those two to my knowledge are designed or meant for "SUBMERGED" applications. One might say yes, but an RV is not a boat, but IMO there are areas especially on the roof where due to A/C run off water can pool around areas such as Refer Vents, etc. and basically sit in water for extended periods of time. Another what I call a real Achilles Heal of TTs are the four corners where the Front/Rear caps top seal meets the metal trim for the sides that typically goes up onto the roof for like 6 to 8 inches. This forms a nice area where water can pool for "extended" periods of time and is a MAJOR CAUSE of a lot of the corner damages that are typical on trailers. Over time water gets under the edge of the caulk and then once it gets to the screws the wicking begins along with the "HIDDEN DAMAGE" over time. I went overboard in sealing this area by basically entombing those corners in Eternabond and even built up the center of the corner to provide some slope back onto the roof. Below is an annotated pic of that area and my "slathering" of Eternabond to seal it.







Larry

LarryJM wrote:

westend wrote:

marc515 wrote:
How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

Here are the datasheets: 3M 4000 UV

Geocel Proflex RV

MSDS Dicor lap sealant shows trade name to be Silaprene DC12345. Royal Adhesives RV Silaprene may be close in composition but who knows. Dicor doesn't list a technical data sheet.

MO is that any of these three would have excellent adhesion and offer strength/elongation for an RV. I do notice that folks using Dicor, especially the self-leveling, are renewing it every so often because it tends to crack.

If you look especially at the detailed specs for the 3M product and the apparant testing it has gone thru, I think that tells you a lot about which is the better adhesive/sealant along with marine applications being some of the most demanding. IMO this is a clear "head and shoulders" lead by 3M.

Larry

Might be. I've got a lot of respect for 3M products. I used Geocel 2300, the construction variety of their tripolymer sealants and am having no issues with it.

westend wrote:

marc515 wrote:
How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

Here are the datasheets: 3M 4000 UV

Geocel Proflex RV

MSDS Dicor lap sealant shows trade name to be Silaprene DC12345. Royal Adhesives RV Silaprene may be close in composition but who knows. Dicor doesn't list a technical data sheet.

MO is that any of these three would have excellent adhesion and offer strength/elongation for an RV. I do notice that folks using Dicor, especially the self-leveling, are renewing it every so often because it tends to crack.

If you look especially at the detailed specs for the 3M product and the apparant testing it has gone thru, I think that tells you a lot about which is the better adhesive/sealant along with marine applications being some of the most demanding. IMO this is a clear "head and shoulders" lead by 3M.

Larry

marc515 wrote:
How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

Well I don't have any experience with the Dicor re your question, but do for both the Proflex and 4000UV since as I said back in 2008 I redid all my fittings with the 4000UV and at that time sealed the front cap seams with Eternabond. I wasn't satisified with the Eternabond job so about around 2010 I took that off and did those two front seams with the Proflex. Last year (2013) after about 3 years I noticed areas of the Proflex where it had shrunk and pulled away from one side of the seam. I just this week removed that and replaced it with the 4000UV and at that time all the now 6+ year old 4000UV I applied back in 2008 looked as good as the day I put it on w/o absolutely no separations and it was still flexible. Now this is only one data point so take it for what it's worth.

Larry

marc515 wrote:
How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

Here are the datasheets: 3M 4000 UV

Geocel Proflex RV

MSDS Dicor lap sealant shows trade name to be Silaprene DC12345. Royal Adhesives RV Silaprene may be close in composition but who knows. Dicor doesn't list a technical data sheet.

MO is that any of these three would have excellent adhesion and offer strength/elongation for an RV. I do notice that folks using Dicor, especially the self-leveling, are renewing it every so often because it tends to crack.

How does the 3M- 4000UV compare and hold VS Proflex and Dicor?

Thank you

dryfly wrote:
Larry,

Good info. I used a metal paint scraper, very carefully, and got my caulk off. I did not soak it with mineral spirits but will try that next time. I did use mineral spirits to smooth out the new Proflex when I applied it. It is terribly difficult to put on as well, at least difficult to get a good smooth bead.

There has got to be a better caulk to use. Even if it didn't last as long. I would much rather re-caulk more often than to have to mess with Proflex!!!

When I did my full caulk removal and re seal on my current trailer back in 2008 I decided to go with the 3M Marine type adhesive/caulk. There are three types, the 4000UV, 4200, and 5200. These 3 3M adhesive caulks and especially the last two are meant to mainly be used as the Primary adhesive/sealant and AFAIK in marine applications you don't generally see the use of a secondary caulking type sealant on marine fittings. Only the 4000UV is UV stabilized so it is the best for secondary sealant caulking ... that is like around windows, and other fittings where the primary sealant is butyl tape between the fitting and the trailer surface. The 4000UV is very easy to work with and you have a lot more time to work with it over the Proflex and you can get IMO OEM looking results and the stuff I put on back in 2008 still looks as good as the day I put it on and not one bit has lost any adhesion. I have also use one tube of the 5200 again around fittings, but I won't recommend that since it's permanent type adhesive that if used as a primary adhesive is IMPOSSIBLE to remove .... EVER w/o destroying something. I haven't seen any issues with UV and the 5200 yet so it doesn't self destruct in the sun very quick, but I haven't tried to remove it, but since it's not between anything I expect it won't be any harder than removing something like either Proflex or Eternabond tape. Some warn that Eternabond tape is permanent and while it is a fantastic product with patience and time it can be removed. I just redid a roof fitting that I had sealed back in 2008 with two overlapping strips of 4" tape that resulted in about a 5x5 inch square and it took about 3 hours working 20 min on and 20 min off to get all the tape off. Here the chisel point bamboo chop stick is the best tool along with careful use of lacquer thinner sparingly.

I feel that using something like the 3M 4000UV along with the full protection that my particular RainKap install and Eternabonding everything especially all exterior screws has given me a TT that is about the best sealed against water you can achieve. Biggest down side is that the 3M caulk is not cheap and has a very limited shelf life, especially once opened.

Larry

dryfly wrote:
Larry,

Good info. I used a metal paint scraper, very carefully, and got my caulk off. I did not soak it with mineral spirits but will try that next time. I did use mineral spirits to smooth out the new Proflex when I applied it. It is terribly difficult to put on as well, at least difficult to get a good smooth bead.

There has got to be a better caulk to use. Even if it didn't last as long. I would much rather re-caulk more often than to have to mess with Proflex!!!

Difficult indeed, but when re-applying, I ended-up getting pretty good results by first taping off the desired caulk line, applying a bead, then without delay chase the caulk line with index finger after freshly dipped in mineral spirits. Then immediately remove the tape... an 'immediate' second chase (one final wetted index finger swipe) will knock down any tape induced edges. Proflex starts to activate once exposed to air, so it sets pretty fast - best to do in the morning shade. With a small amount of trials, I ended up getting some pretty sharp looking caulk lines...Done right, I believe Proflex produces a near factory like professional finish...

Larry,

Good info. I used a metal paint scraper, very carefully, and got my caulk off. I did not soak it with mineral spirits but will try that next time. I did use mineral spirits to smooth out the new Proflex when I applied it. It is terribly difficult to put on as well, at least difficult to get a good smooth bead.

There has got to be a better caulk to use. Even if it didn't last as long. I would much rather re-caulk more often than to have to mess with Proflex!!!

3 tons wrote:

dryfly wrote:
The real killer is the Proflex caulk that most manufactures use on the exterior. It gets very rigid, unlike silicone.

Will any of the above methods soften or remove it??

Well as the OP, I'm now convinced that I had encountered Proflex and not silicone...Proflex, some very ridged stuff. got most of it off with mineral spirits, a plastic putty scraper, time and elbow grease. I will say that once renewed, it does result in a superior looking appearance...

3 tons

Yep that's Proflex and mineral spirits is about the best you can use I think. It needs a little time to soak and it results in the caulk getting very "STICKY and GOOEY" I have found instead of the plastic putty scrapers, I make my own by cutting some acrylic into 1" strips and then into like 3 to 4" lengths and file the end into a chisel point. You can then take an old broom handle or other large round dowel and cut a slit in one end to put the strip of plastic in to hold it and allow you something comfortable to scrape with. This also allows you to chisel both ends of each strip of plastic. The narrow plastic is better for scraping off caulk. Another hand made caulk removal tool is to take a bamboo chopstick (yes it has to be bamboo to last) and do the same chisel point treatment and this allows you to get into narrow areas and corners where the plastic strip is too big.

Time and patience is the key to caulk removal along with allowing whatever solvent to work on the caulk for a few minutes and then using LOTS OF PAPER TOWELS to take care of the mess you will create.

Removing old hardened Proflex is almost on par with removing Silicon caulking and this is one reason I do not recommend or will use Proflex on my trailer.

Larry