Champion dual fuel generator, convert to nat gas?

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Power outages can affect NG supply.....

NG pumping/booster stations need power also

yes, however in our area while we have had occasional power outages, we have NEVER lost water or NG.

But we don't live in Texas!!! They are having both problems now.

Power outages can affect NG supply.....

NG pumping/booster stations need power also

valhalla360 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
In fact, since I bought my bigger gen it has clocked 6 hrs since I bought it about 5 yrs ago..

Wow, that works out to something on the order of $1000/hr.

I can live with rebooting the computer and going out to start the generator for a $1000/hr.

Nope.

I call it an "investment".

While we have not experienced a lot of long power outages for many yrs, the possibility DOES EXIST.

Many yrs ago when I was a young kid, my parents experienced a power outage that lasted over a week.. Thankfully my Dad had a cobbled together a DIY gen laying around (that was nearly unheard of back in the 1970's very few people actually had 240/120V portable gens) and was able to run the water well, run a fridge and freezer, supply heat and even run lights for that entire week.. All while all the neighbors lost food, temporarily left their homes to find heat or braved the bitter cold with a few Kero space heaters..

Myself, before we bought the bigger gen have gone through a 11 hr power outage, ran nearly 200 ft of extension cords through the house to hook up fridge, freezer, some lights and the wood burner fan.. Was not fun, was not easy to run all of those cords, used a lot of power strips and had to make sure those didn't get too much load or you would end up popping their breakers.

To myself, saving $2,000 in frozen foods in the basement freezer, $500 in food in the fridge, having heat any time needed, running water anytime I need it and add in being able to provide backup power so my DW is able to work on the clock from home and doing it without spending time running tripping hazards like extension cord is totally priceless!

Not to mention, I didn't buy an automatic standby gen, I bought a $500 Harbor Freight 8700W gen with manual electric start and I added a $100 manual gen transfer panel, I already had leftover 10/3 with ground wire from a previous wiring project I did for my BILs home so that was paid for..

All told I have $600 into my setup so a whole $100 "per hr" of use if you want to be an "Accountant" for me..

Much better than spending $2000 on a 2Kw 2000i gen that sits and sits and sits.. And when you end up having a power outage you have to run $500 worth of extension cords, $500 in power strips and have to choose between lights or microwave or microwave or heat..

But my setup is not for those who have zero interests in doing routine small engine maintenance, doing the manual start and manual switching..

For totally automatic systems you do pay a much costlier price upfront but the end result is you do not have to lift a finger to make it work.. You pay up front for the "convenience".

While you may think having a more integrated backup gen system is "A waste of money", I don't.

You weren't the one that slipped and fell down steps landing flat on the back while picking up extension cords after a power outage.. My back has never been quite the same since.

Something else to consider, a lot of folks HAVE died over the yrs attempting to run a gen on a porch or INSIDE a home or attached garage (even with garage door open).. A properly installed purpose built outdoor standby gen eliminates a known problem.

Gdetrailer wrote:
In fact, since I bought my bigger gen it has clocked 6 hrs since I bought it about 5 yrs ago..

Wow, that works out to something on the order of $1000/hr.

I can live with rebooting the computer and going out to start the generator for a $1000/hr.

valhalla360 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Are they going to be interested in dragging the gen out, checking oil level, hooking up to natural gas, pull start and then run extension cords all over the place?

........

If your power is going out once or twice a month or for days at a time, I could buy your argument.

If it's once or twice a year for a few hours, not so much.

We've never found ourselves in the first case.

Of course, you can do a hybrid solution. Get an electric start portable and build a vented doghouse for storage in the yard. Generally if it's not going to be weeks (never have seen that), I want the fridge, freezer, and furnace running. Maybe add the entertainment center. A portable can easily handle that. That doesn't require a host of extension cords around the house and if it concerns, you run them semi-permanent where they are tucked up out of the way.

If I was having regular power outages, I would look into if the well pump could be replaced with a 120v version.

:R

For the record, my power has rarely gone out..

In fact, since I bought my bigger gen it has clocked 6 hrs since I bought it about 5 yrs ago..

Three of those hrs were from a power outage last week due to POCO having "equipment failure" at the power distribution center that feeds the lines going past my house.. The rest of the time clocked has been from periodic "exercise" tests over the yrs..

Typically our power interruptions are mere seconds, not enough time to warrant starting a gen and the UPS units I have about the house can handle those interruptions.. UPS units on computers and TVs gives us 15-20 minutes to decide if starting the gen is needed.. They are also nice when the gen runs out of fuel, keeping things running at all times.

In the case of this most recent power outage, I was able to start the gen transfer power to my home all the while keeping my DW's computer and cable internet running as she is still working from home.. The only issue we ran into was the CABLECOs system backup power failed after 2 hrs.. But all the time the gen was running our house was pretty much normal operations including having heat..

While real small gens are nice to have if you have nothing else, there is nothing that compares to having a gen large enough to handle more than a fridge, TV and a couple of lights AND having a gen with transfer switch..

OP mentioned that they were considering natural gas because the intended audience may not take care of a gas only gen to the point it most likely would not work when needed..

Standby gens with autostart FIX that issue.. They auto start when outage happens, they autostart on a schedule for testing and now days they can even email you diagnostics and if it encounters an error or issue..

Not everyone is inclined to properly maintain a gen, not everyone is inclined to drag a gen out into the yard each time the power blinks, not everyone is inclined to drag around a bunch of extension cords..

And sadly, not everyone realizes you can't safely run a portable gen in a home, enclosed space or building, on the porch or in an attached garage with the door open..

Gdetrailer wrote:

Are they going to be interested in dragging the gen out, checking oil level, hooking up to natural gas, pull start and then run extension cords all over the place?

........

If your power is going out once or twice a month or for days at a time, I could buy your argument.

If it's once or twice a year for a few hours, not so much.

We've never found ourselves in the first case.

Of course, you can do a hybrid solution. Get an electric start portable and build a vented doghouse for storage in the yard. Generally if it's not going to be weeks (never have seen that), I want the fridge, freezer, and furnace running. Maybe add the entertainment center. A portable can easily handle that. That doesn't require a host of extension cords around the house and if it concerns, you run them semi-permanent where they are tucked up out of the way.

If I was having regular power outages, I would look into if the well pump could be replaced with a 120v version.

Snowman9000 wrote:
Thanks all. My DD and SIL live in TX and are now thinking about a simple generator. Knowing their ways, a gasoline one will end up not working when they need it. So I’m looking into the LP and natural gas options. I see that the dual fuel version of the Champion 2000 inverter is $500 more than the gasoline only version. Yikes.

Are they going to be interested in dragging the gen out, checking oil level, hooking up to natural gas, pull start and then run extension cords all over the place?

That is the reality of portable gens, some folks may not be all that happy with all of that..

For yrs I had a 2000W and a 4000W gens, both only had 120V output which meant one critical load I could not fire up which is a 240V water well pump..

Both gens I had to pull out the back door of the garage out into the backyard, check oil then add fuel and then pull start.. But once it was started I had to layout a couple hundred feet of extension cords all through the house..

Once power was restored I then had to pickup all the extension cords, plug all the stuff back into the wall outlets, pull the gen back into the garage..

It took one slip and fall down the basement steps while picking up extension cords to wise up..

I bought a 8700W 240/120V gen with electric start and put that in an outbuilding and added exhaust pipe to the outside.. Then I turned my attention to the extension cord issue and installed a manual gen transfer panel with breakers for my priority loads and moved the priority loads to that panel.

Now when I have a power outage, I can walk out to the outbuilding, push a button and have the gen operational, go back inside and flip the transfer panel to gen.. I am still working on moving a couple of more circuits and when that is done will only need a couple of short extensions to power up random things as needed..

Now I have all of my lighting circuits, my water well, furnace all on that panel and the fridge and freezer will be next on my list..

Having running water during a power outage = PRICELESS!

If they are not all that electric/mechanically inclined, I would recommend getting a automatic standby gen with auto transfer installed. Pricey for sure but I suspect by the time you go through buying a 2000W inverter gen, add in the natural gas conversion, get them setup with a natural gas quick connect setup plus extension cords you could be nearly the same price as a small autostart/autotransfer standby gen.

You can get a "Briggs and Stratton" 10Kw Propane/Natural gas auto start gen with transfer switch for $3200 at Home Depot.. Yeah, B&S not the greatest name but hey, it really beats not having power..

SEE HERE

Snowman9000 wrote:
Thanks all. My DD and SIL live in TX and are now thinking about a simple generator. Knowing their ways, a gasoline one will end up not working when they need it. So I’m looking into the LP and natural gas options. I see that the dual fuel version of the Champion 2000 inverter is $500 more than the gasoline only version. Yikes.

If you aren't in a rush to buy, keep an eye on prices. They go on sale fairly regularly.

Helped some friends pick out a 3100w dual fuel last summer and they got it for $650.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I have converted three generators to natural gas from liquid gasoline fuel. All three were subsequently fired with modified Impco carburetors and all three were operated at +5,000 ft altitude.

Subsequent loading of the pair of 12,000 watt Onans, caused them to run out of prime mover power at 8-9,000 watts depending on temperature. After much debate a switch to JAHNS cast pistons was made. The domed pistons were thought to raise the compression ratio to above 10 to one from 8 to one. The engines were overhauled and assembled in Reno, NV.

The second type of engine was a Wisconsin V4 valve in block 37.5 original horsepower prime mover. The cylinder heads were cut .125" to raise compression. The assembly work was done on site.

Starting the engines then fine-tuning the air fuel ratio was am experience in maintaining patience.

Out of the box, the IMPCO carburetors would not allow the engines to fire. The main mixer orifice was enlarged .010" at a time. This was done by a propane mechanic thank god.

Enriching the mixture had solid repercussions. Too rich and the air cooled engines would overheat. Definition of overheat: In the dark the exhaust manifolds would glow dully red.

What a time-waster! Avoiding overheating the engines was a challenge. Industrial 240 fans were used in the gen sheds to flood both engines with ambient air.

Over temp shutdown was used on both systems with 290 degree block sensors used as a thermal limit. At that temp, engine lube oil temps were found to be in excess of 300F. I taught the caretaker how to parallel the pair of Onan generators.

NOTE: I was not satisfied with the outcome of this work. Moreso on the OHV Onans than the Wisconsin. Trying to equal or surpass the gasoline output resulted in engine overheating. My recommendation of using diesel replacement units was dismissed. The objection was based on a slight possibility of wind shift and diesel smell. 2nd Objection was maintenance involving dirty diesel lube oil.

But the corporation "principals" smiled and cut the checks.

on portable generators the advantage of conversion to NG or propane is more one of not worrying about bad gas, or having an infinite fuel source (NG). Realizing that power output WILL go down some, probably on the order of 10-15%.

On my honda 2200 and honda 2000 the tri fuel conversion so far has worked fantastic. Starts and runs easily on all three fuels, but as mentioned lower power output on Propane or NG. Honda having a fuel pump makes an easy conversion, when on propane/NG, power to the fuel pump is cut, run it dry, switch. It will sputter for a minute or so as the last bits of gas are combined with the propane/NG, then it's all set.

I have converted three generators to natural gas from liquid gasoline fuel. All three were subsequently fired with modified Impco carburetors and all three were operated at +5,000 ft altitude.

Subsequent loading of the pair of 12,000 watt Onans, caused them to run out of prime mover power at 8-9,000 watts depending on temperature. After much debate a switch to JAHNS cast pistons was made. The domed pistons were thought to raise the compression ratio to above 10 to one from 8 to one. The engines were overhauled and assembled in Reno, NV.

The second type of engine was a Wisconsin V4 valve in block 37.5 original horsepower prime mover. The cylinder heads were cut .125" to raise compression. The assembly work was done on site.

Starting the engines then fine-tuning the air fuel ratio was am experience in maintaining patience.

Out of the box, the IMPCO carburetors would not allow the engines to fire. The main mixer orifice was enlarged .010" at a time. This was done by a propane mechanic thank god.

Enriching the mixture had solid repercussions. Too rich and the air cooled engines would overheat. Definition of overheat: In the dark the exhaust manifolds would glow dully red.

What a time-waster! Avoiding overheating the engines was a challenge. Industrial 240 fans were used in the gen sheds to flood both engines with ambient air.

Over temp shutdown was used on both systems with 290 degree block sensors used as a thermal limit. At that temp, engine lube oil temps were found to be in excess of 300F. I taught the caretaker how to parallel the pair of Onan generators.

NOTE: I was not satisfied with the outcome of this work. Moreso on the OHV Onans than the Wisconsin. Trying to equal or surpass the gasoline output resulted in engine overheating. My recommendation of using diesel replacement units was dismissed. The objection was based on a slight possibility of wind shift and diesel smell. 2nd Objection was maintenance involving dirty diesel lube oil.

But the corporation "principals" smiled and cut the checks.