China Tire Manufacturing

If you cannot discuss tires and related issues in a civil and respectful manor........don't bother posting in this forum.......it will not be tolerated!


This thread is now closed and will not be reopened........and I am real reluctant to allow any further tire discussions........

Francesca Knowles wrote:

kedanie wrote:
Come on Calvin, the document you provided is a training document provide the applicable law that requires one to install tires with load capacities that exceed the axle capacity.

On edit
If you would have read the entire document, it says farther down;

GAWR also applies to OE and replacement tires. According to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS 571.120):

The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle’s certification label (tire information placard).

Keith

That last actually proves Fasteagle's point, I think. It's lifted entire from this final NHTSA rule..."shall" language is compulsory, not voluntary.

I guess it doesn't say that tires must exceed GVWR, but they may not go under it. Which I think is the point.

Interestingly, though, that NHTSA document also calls for load-carrying reserves in LT tires, too, which might lead one to a conclusion that one would have to upsize in order to meet that requirement.

No. The document FE linked says "The load capability of the replacement tire must be equal or greater than the original factory tire."
That is no where near the same as "The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle’s certification label (tire information placard)."

For example an oem ST LR E tire on a 6k axle has ~3500LB weight rating when only 3k is needed (by regulation). So the Toyo document unnecessarily limits the end user by requiring them to buy an overspecced tire. As mentioned it is for liability reasons and in most situations it is a non issue. It is easier for the tire companies to have rules like this for their technicians than it is to educate them on the various regulations.

EDIT: Keith beat me to it, but same thing.

Come on Francesca Knowles, you've been drinking too much of FE's cool-aid.

What he is saying is replacement tires must equal or exceed the OE tires no matter what their capacity. In fact, the NHTSA regulation stipulates that they shall not be less that the axle gross weight rating. There is a big difference there. In layman's terms, 2 3042# tires on a 6,000# axle exceeds the requirement. Just because the manufacturer installed tires that carry a much higher rating is meaningless. As long as you meet or exceed the GAWR, you are legal.

Keith

kedanie wrote:
Come on Calvin, the document you provided is a training document provide the applicable law that requires one to install tires with load capacities that exceed the axle capacity.

On edit
If you would have read the entire document, it says farther down;

GAWR also applies to OE and replacement tires. According to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS 571.120):

The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle’s certification label (tire information placard).

Keith

That last actually proves Fasteagle's point, I think. It's lifted entire from this final NHTSA rule..."shall" language is compulsory, not voluntary.

I guess it doesn't say that tires must exceed GVWR, but they may not go under it. Which I think is the point.

Interestingly, though, that NHTSA document also calls for load-carrying reserves in LT tires, too, which might lead one to a conclusion that one would have to upsize in order to meet that requirement.

It all boils down to the quality specs and quality control effort at the factory, whoever or wherever the manufacturer is.

Come on Calvin, the document you provided is a training document for installers and reflects company policy. Those policies would be in place for the protection of the company not the purchasers.

It is not a law that is enforceable by a court of law. For the umpteenth time, quit this nonsense and provide the applicable law that requires one to install tires with load capacities that exceed the axle capacity.

On edit
If you would have read the entire document, it says farther down;

GAWR also applies to OE and replacement tires. According to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS 571.120):

The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle’s certification label (tire information placard).

Keith

Me Again wrote:


Very similar to saying a tires "should" to replaced with ones of equal or great weight carrying capacity. No where does it say "must".

Chris

On that subject this reference says MUST.

Look Here!


FE

BeerCan wrote:

FastEagle wrote:

CapriRacer wrote:

BeerCan wrote:
I know I was one of the people bagging on the source of these documents. I think after CapriRacers post I can believe this "rule" is still in effect. I don't think it is a good one, and I also think people will misinterpret it. In the end we need our drivers to be smarter than their tires.

And what this does is put this squarely in the hands of the trailer manufacturers. They need to make it abundantly clear that either their trailer are limited to 65 mph or 85 mph based on how intense the loading is.

Honestly, we would not be having this discussion if the trailer manufacturers were doing the job they are supposed to do.

They are coming around. There is a copy of the generic Keystone RV Owner's Manual in the reference below. It is a 2013 document (pdf). In chapter 4 - page 19 they list speed restrictions for ST & LT tires.

Keystone Ref

FastEagle

They use the word "typically" in each sentence, so not really a restriction on their part but more of a suggestion. Very weak on their part IMO

Very similar to saying a tires "should" to replaced with ones of equal or great weight carrying capacity. No where does it say "must". Chris

FastEagle wrote:

CapriRacer wrote:

BeerCan wrote:
I know I was one of the people bagging on the source of these documents. I think after CapriRacers post I can believe this "rule" is still in effect. I don't think it is a good one, and I also think people will misinterpret it. In the end we need our drivers to be smarter than their tires.

And what this does is put this squarely in the hands of the trailer manufacturers. They need to make it abundantly clear that either their trailer are limited to 65 mph or 85 mph based on how intense the loading is.

Honestly, we would not be having this discussion if the trailer manufacturers were doing the job they are supposed to do.

They are coming around. There is a copy of the generic Keystone RV Owner's Manual in the reference below. It is a 2013 document (pdf). In chapter 4 - page 19 they list speed restrictions for ST & LT tires.

Keystone Ref

FastEagle

They use the word "typically" in each sentence, so not really a restriction on their part but more of a suggestion. Very weak on their part IMO

CapriRacer wrote:

BeerCan wrote:
I know I was one of the people bagging on the source of these documents. I think after CapriRacers post I can believe this "rule" is still in effect. I don't think it is a good one, and I also think people will misinterpret it. In the end we need our drivers to be smarter than their tires.

And what this does is put this squarely in the hands of the trailer manufacturers. They need to make it abundantly clear that either their trailer are limited to 65 mph or 85 mph based on how intense the loading is.

Honestly, we would not be having this discussion if the trailer manufacturers were doing the job they are supposed to do.

They are coming around. There is a copy of the generic Keystone RV Owner's Manual in the reference below. It is a 2013 document (pdf). In chapter 4 - page 19 they list speed restrictions for ST & LT tires.

Keystone Ref

FastEagle