Apologies for the long post, but I've been super impressed with the technical knowledge I've seen in on this forum and am hoping someone might be able to help.I own a 2019 Jeep Wrangler, and have installed a Genesis dual battery system into it for running various accessories. The system is basically two 12v Odyssey dual purpose AGM batteries, with a smart isolator between them, that will automatically disconnect the accessory battery from the starting battery when a certain voltage is reached to avoid draining the starter battery, and then reconnect them when the vehicle is running for charging.The problem I am having, is that I am not able to get these Odyssey batteries to charge properly in the Jeep Wrangler, because it has a very funky "smart charging system", that varies the charging voltage as you are driving to "save gas mileage". The voltage will fluctuate between 12.7v and 14.7v depending on the battery voltage and accelerator pedal.Apparently Odyssey batteries only like to be charged at 14.7 volts for bulk charging, and 13.7 for float charging to top them off.So now I'm looking into DC to DC chargers in order to get my charging voltages up to the correct level. Has anyone had any luck installing a DC to DC charger along side an already existing dual battery system that has a smart isolator built into it?All of the DC to DC chargers seem to want the starter battery separated from the accessory battery, as they already have an isolator built in.The other option I am exploring, is just disabling the smart charging in the Jeep by disconnecting the Intelligent Battery Sensor. But this causes the alternator to put out a constant 14.5v, and I'm worried this will actually OVERCHARGE my batteries... but I'm not sure?Any other creative ideas I can try?

i have to say im confused. this looks like a custom designed product for the jeep? an expensive one that's for sure? i find it hard to believe they didn't design for this.that said if your just using the secondary battery and don't need it combined, then its easy, disconnect the second battery, connect the dc-dc charger to output of the second battery wiring from the genesis kit, and connect the output of the dc-dc to the second battery and that should be it.

unsavory wrote:The problem I am having, is that I am not able to get these Odyssey batteries to charge properly in the Jeep Wrangler, because it has a very funky "smart charging system", that varies the charging voltage as you are driving to "save gas mileage". Yep ! Pretty standard on almost every vehicle from about 2005.unsavory wrote:All of the DC to DC chargers seem to want the starter battery separated from the accessory battery, as they already have an isolator built in.Follow the instructions ! What you are missing is that theses DC-DC chargers actually boost the voltage going to the second battery so that it get the correct voltage no matter what is being sent to the starting battery.unsavory wrote:The other option I am exploring, is just disabling the smart charging in the Jeep by disconnecting the Intelligent Battery Sensor. But this causes the alternator to put out a constant 14.5v, and I'm worried this will actually OVERCHARGE my batteries... but I'm not sure?DON'T DO IT ! The computer module is very smart and trying to trick it, is not a good idea.If the charging characteristics of the Odyssey AGM batteries are that different compared to a normal "flooded" lead acid, re-install a plain battery as your starting battery.

You will not be able to use both the isolator and the DC-DC charger.Is the start battery floundering?Depending on your accessories you may want to go back to the oem start battery and DC-DC charge one or two Odyssey to be used for accessories only.

I had to do some quick reading about this system as I’m not familiar with it. It appears that it replaces the OEM battery with two AGM’s that have a smart isolator between them, correct?What was the OEM starting battery? Flooded, or AGM?A DC-DC charger could be added to keep the second battery charged correctly. It will do nothing for the starting battery though, so hopefully the Jeep’s charging system supports AGM. If not, I would not have purchased this system. IMO, a DC-DC charger could be installed between the starting battery and the second battery. But, it would need its own isolation solenoid (non-intelligent, not voltage sensing) on the input wire to the charger that is only energized when the engine is running. Otherwise, the DC-DC charger would continue to charge the second battery when the engine is off. Voltage from the second battery will not back feed to the starting battery through the DC-DC charger. It will boost the voltage going to the second battery though, and provided it supports AGM charging, will keep it fully charged. Let the Jeep charging system keep the starting battery charged, and leave the Genesis system intact so it’s fully functional. If the OEM starting battery wasn’t AGM, you might consider reinstalling it as the starting battery, and selling or repurposing the AGM. :):)

A deeply discharged Odyssey AGM, ideally, wants 40 amps applied per 100Ah of capacity until 14.7v is reached, then hold 14.7v for 4 more hours then float at 13.6 to 13.8v.Do you have a plug in charging source capable of this?Few do, as few exist.80% charged to 100% charged is not going to happen in less than 3.5 hours even if you achieve 14.7v at battery terminals and drive 3.5+ hours.Expecting your vehicle's charging system to do an Ideal job , even if you drive for 3.5 hours, is unwise.The drop to 12.7v for fuel savings only makes it worse, and the system, with two Odyssey batteries, which retain surface charge voltage higher and longer than a regular starting battery, will likely having them not only powering the vehicles electrical loads while underway, but also feeding into engine starting battery when it decides 12.7v is fine and dandy.Seeing as how you are not even going to come close to being able to achieve ideal recharging via your vehicles charging system, I recommend accepting whatever your vehicle's voltage regulator allows, and then having a plug in charging source that can meet the 40 amps upto 14.7v, hold for 4 hours, per 100Ah of capacity requirement/recommendation.It would be best to hook up this charger in their most depleted state.You can of course get away with much less, and it will be philosophically 'just fine' for a period of time, but your 300$+ Odyssey AGMS will fail to live up to their potential.I have cycled a Northstar AGM group27 to death at 6 years and 1200+ deep cycles and thousands of shallow cycles. Northstar has the same pure lead thin plate construction, and it indeed LOVES the high amp recharge to full. Its voltage retention and engine cranking gusto is extremely obviously better after it gets a huge charge rate from a well depleted state and this is more and more apparent the more often it gets less than a huge charging rate and charged to less than full cycle after cycle.I have fooled my 1989 engine computer with a 10ohm 50 watt resistor into thinking it is still attached to the externally regulated alternator, and no check engine light. I use a modified adjustable external voltage regulator whose voltage adjustment knob is on my Dashboard. I have one of the very few vehicles that can indeed fully charge a depleted battery to full in the minimum time safely possible but the 3.5 hours minimum, from 80% to 100% still applies.Beware of idling to recharge. Underhood airflow and higher alternator fan rpm plays a huge part in alternator cooling, and Depleted Odysey AGMS can easily suck up 50+ amps each and fry your alternator, if it was told to deliver 14.2+v to the batteries.The DC to Dc converter, unless it has an alternator temp sensor, can overheat the alternator even when the vehicle decides 12.7v is fine and dandy.Any charging is of course better than no recharging of a depleted battery, but treating a pair of Odyssey AGMS correctly, to get them to live upto their potential, requires those high amp recharge parameters be met every few deep cycles .

Dual batteries, DC to DC chargers, isolators, AGM... HELP!

NRALIFR
Explorer
Jan 31, 2020
The PCM modules available from US Alternators in Landyacht318’s link look really interesting. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like they have one for any Jeep products. That’s too bad, because that would be the best way to address this problem IMO.

I can certainly understand your desire to replace the OEM battery setup with something more robust and reliable. To be honest, the OEM system sounds like a trouble prone POS. You would think a vehicle that comes with AGM batteries would have a charging system capable of charging them properly. But then, I also think that if Genesis is going to market a replacement battery system for the Jeep, it should work with the Jeep charging system.

Good luck, and please let us know what you do and how it works out.

:):)
unsavory
Explorer
Jan 31, 2020
NRALIFR wrote:
You can probably disable the Genesis solenoid by simply unplugging the connector on the Cole Hersee charge controller. The solenoid will never energize and connect the two batteries that way. If you ever need to combine the two batteries because the starting battery is run down, just plug the charge controller back in, and use the start boost button.

The DC-DC charger input power wire (from the starting battery) does need to be on its own ignition activated solenoid though, so it will switch off when the engine isn’t running. I’d put a fuse in the ignition activated wire close to the solenoid in an in-line fuse holder, and use that to disable the DC-DC charger in the event you need to combine the batteries.

:):)

I'm starting to think this might be the best solution to my problem, if I want to do it right.

Thanks to everyone who contributed in this thread! I have learned a lot of very valuable information here.
landyacht318
Explorer
Jan 31, 2020
Looks like some companies are addressing the weird fuel saving voltage regulation with aftermarket products for some brands of vehicle:

http://www.usalternators.com/pcm-module/
LittleBill
Explorer
Jan 31, 2020
time2roll wrote:
unsavory wrote:
NRALIFR wrote:
I think (hope) LittleBill meant “Put the output of the DC-DC charger on the main lugs of the secondary battery”
Now I'm even more confused. How can I charge the secondary battery if the input and output are the same? =)
The DC-DC charger will have power input connection and power output connection.
Connect the input to the start battery. Connect the output to the accessory battery.
Remove the other charge control relay.

yea don't do this, this will kill the start battery if you run down the secondary, not to mention the constant drain from the charger running all the time
NRALIFR
Explorer
Jan 31, 2020
You can probably disable the Genesis solenoid by simply unplugging the connector on the Cole Hersee charge controller. The solenoid will never energize and connect the two batteries that way. If you ever need to combine the two batteries because the starting battery is run down, just plug the charge controller back in, and use the start boost button.

The DC-DC charger input power wire (from the starting battery) does need to be on its own ignition activated solenoid though, so it will switch off when the engine isn’t running. I’d put a fuse in the ignition activated wire close to the solenoid in an in-line fuse holder, and use that to disable the DC-DC charger in the event you need to combine the batteries.

:):)
time2roll
Nomad
Jan 31, 2020
unsavory wrote:
NRALIFR wrote:
I think (hope) LittleBill meant “Put the output of the DC-DC charger on the main lugs of the secondary battery”
Now I'm even more confused. How can I charge the secondary battery if the input and output are the same? =)
The DC-DC charger will have power input connection and power output connection.
Connect the input to the start battery. Connect the output to the accessory battery.
Remove the other charge control relay.
LittleBill
Explorer
Jan 30, 2020
unsavory wrote:
LittleBill wrote:
already told you how to wire this, put the input of the dc-dc charger on the main lugs of the secondary battery option, this will charge the secondary battery correctly, but you will not be able to parallel them for additional capacity if this was your intention

It was partially my intention, yes. But also, it still doesn't address the need to properly charge the starting battery, since the OEM alternator will not do that properly for these types of batteries.

What is the purpose of connecting the DC to DC charger input to the Genesis output? Why wouldn't I just completely remove the Genesis isolator? Trying to learn here...

your not going to be able to do that, does this kit come WITH the battery's? its not worth the expense to try to change the start battery charging characteristics, personally i would change the battery to one that falls inline with the charging style of the jeep.

the reason to keep the isolater is simple, you run your accessory loads off the secondary battery, fridge lights radio's etc, and if you kill the battery, you will still be able to start the truck. thus the need.

you can take it a step further and add another solenoid to get your jump start feature back, but thats another topic.

and no the input of the dc-dc would come from the isolater terminals going to what was the second battery, the output of the dc-dc would connect to the 2nd battery.
unsavory
Explorer
Jan 30, 2020
LittleBill wrote:
disconnect the second battery, connect the dc-dc charger to output of the second battery wiring from the genesis kit, and connect the output of the dc-dc to the second battery and that should be it.

So re-reading what he said, he is indeed talking about wiring the DC to DC input to the output of the Genesis dual battery wiring (these are the wires that would normally feed INTO the secondary battery). And then connect the output from the DC to DC charger to the secondary battery posts.

So my question still stands. Why not just get rid of the Genesis smart isolator in that case? What would I gain by leaving it in place?
unsavory
Explorer
Jan 30, 2020
NRALIFR wrote:
I think (hope) LittleBill meant “Put the output of the DC-DC charger on the main lugs of the secondary battery”

:):)

Now I'm even more confused. How can I charge the secondary battery if the input and output are the same? =)
NRALIFR
Explorer
Jan 30, 2020
I think (hope) LittleBill meant “Put the output of the DC-DC charger on the main lugs of the secondary battery”

:):)

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