EV Charging station & RV use

Gdetrailer wrote:

GordonThree wrote:

2oldman wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

What next, man puts stoppers into volcanoes? One active volcano puts out far more "pollution" in one day than all of the supposed pollution man has in centuries...

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's a common misconception, and not true. Science actually knows how to measure this stuff, even if you don't believe it.

x2

Actually, you are both wrong and just do not realize it.

The wool has been pulled over your eyes.

"Science" by TODAY'S "standards" creates THEORY'S, then attempts to "prove" it via COMPUTER MODELS using MAN MADE "DATA".

The problem with this is the DATA CAN BE EASILY SKEWED by creatively including or excluding specific data that does not fit their theory in order to "show" that their "theory" is true..

In most cases there is no hard and fast proof and not all the data sets are revealed let alone actually used..

In the past, much science "research" was actually PROVED with REAL "scientific methods", not pretend computer models with cherry picked data.

I would suggest that you should go back to school and take a hard look at what is known as "The LAWS OF CONSERVATION"..

HERE is a very high level fly over of the basic physics Laws of Conservation..

A very important "law" that I will point out is this..

The Law of Conservation of Matter

The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed.

ALL animals and plants also abide by these rules, they take energy in (IE food/nutrition)to live and when they die, they decay back to the original basic building blocks which are CARBON, WATER, MINERALS and such.

The planet Earth has the EXACT SAME amount "MATTER" no matter what we do with it.

WE "humans" cannot "create" or "destroy" OR CHANGE the Earths "Mass", the ONLY "exception" to this is when man puts something into outer space outside the earths atmosphere and it does not return, THEN you have now taken some "matter" out of the Earth's equation!

You NEED to realize that the planet Earth is not a "dead" planet, it IS much alive and not just in plants and animals, it IS CONSTANTLY changing INTERNALLY. At the core of the Earth there IS HEAT, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HEAT.

That heat IS changing and rearranging materials, Lava is a great example of this, lava brings up metals, minerals, CARBON and much more all the time to the top surface.

Trees and plants take minerals, carbon and such from the SOIL and use the energy from the sun to do that work.

Animals eat plants and other animals, we humans then eat plants and animals to live..

things die, they decay, putting back into the Earths system to be reused..

And thus the circle of life..

Another law states..

"Law of Conservation of Energy

The law of conservation of energy is one of the basic laws of physics along with the conservation of mass and the conservation of momentum. The law of conservation of energy states that energy can change from one form into another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. Or the general definition is:

The total energy of an isolated system remains constant over time.
law of conservation of energy - pendulum
Newton’s cradle. A device that demonstrates the Law of Conservation of Mechanical Energy and Momentum.

Energy can be defined as the capacity for doing work. It may exist in a variety of forms and may be transformed from one type of energy to another in hundreds of ways.

For example, burning gasoline to power cars is an energy conversion process we rely on. The chemical energy in gasoline is converted to thermal energy, which is then converted to mechanical energy that makes the car move. The mechanical energy has been converted to kinetic energy. When we use the brakes to stop a car, that kinetic energy is converted by friction back to heat, or thermal energy.

A consequence of the law of conservation of energy is that a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, which produces work without the input of energy, cannot exist."

Folks seem to think that EV cars are the means to save the world, they in fact are not.

EACH additional step you insert into a process has a CONVERSION LOSS, typically the result IS HEAT when you do not want heat as a result.

Making electricity takes energy, you get LESS ENERGY AT THE OUTPUT THAN FROM THE INPUT.

Distribution of electricity to the electrical grid has a CONVERSION LOSS in HEAT from the high voltage transformers.

Then you add in the resistance of the distribution lines, then the sub station transformers then finally the transformer that feeds your home plus the resistance of the wiring from the pole, to your home then to your car..

The result is you get a FRACTION of the energy that it took to get to your EV car..

All this is simple High School Physics 101..

Now, some folks are thinking that Yeah, I will "save" since I no longer have to "pay the man" at the pump..

Think again.. IF "everyone" were to change to EV cars, then the PRICE of your electric to FEED that car WILL become even more expensive than gas..

Supply and demand will wipe out your "savings" in a hurry..

The Electrical grid has a LIMITED CAPACITY, it is not "infinite" and to add more load REQUIRES MORE POWER PLANTS, MORE TRANSFORMERS, MORE WIRING, MORE MAN POWER, MORE MAINTENANCE and for kicks and grins, MORE ENERGY (IE natural gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar) and ALL OF THOSE FORMS OF ENERGY POLLUTE!

I can go on, I can bring you to the water, but I can't make you drink.. Perhaps make you drown in some real science facts not the pretend junk science you believe in..

Do what you want..

Wow thats quite a mouthfull... :)

And so many misleading points its rather hilarious..

Are you saying that if I put solar panels on my roof and charge my EV car that way,,and if everyone on Earth did this the air wouldnt be cleaner?
Yes or no..
Do you or any of your friends have any wested interest in Oil industry btw?
Did you know that Every year over 7 milion people die from polution related ilneses?
Do you care?

MNGeeks61 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
The Kona BEV has a range of 258 miles. It allows for fast charging. Battery size is 64 kwh.

rk911 wrote:
when an EV has the same range and can fully recharge in the same frame as my gasser then...and only then...will I consider an EV. to each their own.

...

when it goes on sale in 2019, let me know if they succeed in getting it cheaper than a Bolt which is still 35k.

You can't buy an EV kona right now. And initially I hear it'll only be Cali and east coast availability.

Front wheel drive is ok, hopefully they make an AWD version too, but that'll drive the price up as well. I want my BASE model EV with just AC and 200+ mile range, all for under 35k... Tesla disappointed me. My buddy finally spent 56k for his $35,000 Model 3 wundercar. He does like it, but I already see the glimmerings of "quality control" dying in his eyes. A few bits of trim not fitting, etc, software update woes... this must be typical of buying a brand new car nowadays.

Oh wait. Nope, I bought a brand new Jeep with no issues.

Oops, off topic, my bad.

Tesla has half a milion orders for their cars,,

One would think Big 3 auto makers would jump in the game and build a decent EV too..
Honestly I would rather have decent hybrid EV truck like Workhorse makes..would be perfect for camping..

GordonThree wrote:

2oldman wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

What next, man puts stoppers into volcanoes? One active volcano puts out far more "pollution" in one day than all of the supposed pollution man has in centuries...

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's a common misconception, and not true. Science actually knows how to measure this stuff, even if you don't believe it.

x2

Actually, you are both wrong and just do not realize it.

The wool has been pulled over your eyes.

"Science" by TODAY'S "standards" creates THEORY'S, then attempts to "prove" it via COMPUTER MODELS using MAN MADE "DATA".

The problem with this is the DATA CAN BE EASILY SKEWED by creatively including or excluding specific data that does not fit their theory in order to "show" that their "theory" is true..

In most cases there is no hard and fast proof and not all the data sets are revealed let alone actually used..

In the past, much science "research" was actually PROVED with REAL "scientific methods", not pretend computer models with cherry picked data.

I would suggest that you should go back to school and take a hard look at what is known as "The LAWS OF CONSERVATION"..

HERE is a very high level fly over of the basic physics Laws of Conservation..

A very important "law" that I will point out is this..

The Law of Conservation of Matter

The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed.

ALL animals and plants also abide by these rules, they take energy in (IE food/nutrition)to live and when they die, they decay back to the original basic building blocks which are CARBON, WATER, MINERALS and such.

The planet Earth has the EXACT SAME amount "MATTER" no matter what we do with it.

WE "humans" cannot "create" or "destroy" OR CHANGE the Earths "Mass", the ONLY "exception" to this is when man puts something into outer space outside the earths atmosphere and it does not return, THEN you have now taken some "matter" out of the Earth's equation!

You NEED to realize that the planet Earth is not a "dead" planet, it IS much alive and not just in plants and animals, it IS CONSTANTLY changing INTERNALLY. At the core of the Earth there IS HEAT, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HEAT.

That heat IS changing and rearranging materials, Lava is a great example of this, lava brings up metals, minerals, CARBON and much more all the time to the top surface.

Trees and plants take minerals, carbon and such from the SOIL and use the energy from the sun to do that work.

Animals eat plants and other animals, we humans then eat plants and animals to live..

things die, they decay, putting back into the Earths system to be reused..

And thus the circle of life..

Another law states..

"Law of Conservation of Energy

The law of conservation of energy is one of the basic laws of physics along with the conservation of mass and the conservation of momentum. The law of conservation of energy states that energy can change from one form into another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. Or the general definition is:

The total energy of an isolated system remains constant over time.
law of conservation of energy - pendulum
Newton’s cradle. A device that demonstrates the Law of Conservation of Mechanical Energy and Momentum.

Energy can be defined as the capacity for doing work. It may exist in a variety of forms and may be transformed from one type of energy to another in hundreds of ways.

For example, burning gasoline to power cars is an energy conversion process we rely on. The chemical energy in gasoline is converted to thermal energy, which is then converted to mechanical energy that makes the car move. The mechanical energy has been converted to kinetic energy. When we use the brakes to stop a car, that kinetic energy is converted by friction back to heat, or thermal energy.

A consequence of the law of conservation of energy is that a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, which produces work without the input of energy, cannot exist."

Folks seem to think that EV cars are the means to save the world, they in fact are not.

EACH additional step you insert into a process has a CONVERSION LOSS, typically the result IS HEAT when you do not want heat as a result.

Making electricity takes energy, you get LESS ENERGY AT THE OUTPUT THAN FROM THE INPUT.

Distribution of electricity to the electrical grid has a CONVERSION LOSS in HEAT from the high voltage transformers.

Then you add in the resistance of the distribution lines, then the sub station transformers then finally the transformer that feeds your home plus the resistance of the wiring from the pole, to your home then to your car..

The result is you get a FRACTION of the energy that it took to get to your EV car..

All this is simple High School Physics 101..

Now, some folks are thinking that Yeah, I will "save" since I no longer have to "pay the man" at the pump..

Think again.. IF "everyone" were to change to EV cars, then the PRICE of your electric to FEED that car WILL become even more expensive than gas..

Supply and demand will wipe out your "savings" in a hurry..

The Electrical grid has a LIMITED CAPACITY, it is not "infinite" and to add more load REQUIRES MORE POWER PLANTS, MORE TRANSFORMERS, MORE WIRING, MORE MAN POWER, MORE MAINTENANCE and for kicks and grins, MORE ENERGY (IE natural gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar) and ALL OF THOSE FORMS OF ENERGY POLLUTE!

I can go on, I can bring you to the water, but I can't make you drink.. Perhaps make you drown in some real science facts not the pretend junk science you believe in..

Do what you want..

Hi Ralph,

My total energy use for Oct 15, 2016 was 20 KWH for 24 hours. I don't think that would be possible in a sticks and bricks home. I don't think I could have 5 kw of solar panels on the roof. There simply is not enough room.

I'd love to have an affordable BEV motorhome.

I drive 78 kph (49 mph) in order to get an honest 11 MPG (us gallon).

Since July 1, 2018 until August 24, 2018 my total gasoline use has been 180 liters (47.55 us gallons).

I have a location in Altamonte Springs where I have opted for alternative energy sources. It does cost a bit more.

Ralph Cramden wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
There are a lot of folks who are playing Ostrich. Climate change is real and our addition and addiction to energy use is causing changes which used to take 1000's of years in tens of years.

I'm glad I do not have grand children because there may well be shortages of many things that we currently take for granted.

We only have one planet and 7.6 billion people is too much for the biosphere.

It may be time to reconsider the use of the 28' class C? V-10?

Every time you turn the key it spews a massive amount of CO2 into the biosphere not to mention a whole lot of other nastiness, and no amount of solar on the roof is going to even begin to offset it. The power going through the Sola and Microair most likely is not coming from hydro or a windfarm either.

Where is Al when he is needed?

pianotuna wrote:
The Kona BEV has a range of 258 miles. It allows for fast charging. Battery size is 64 kwh.

rk911 wrote:
when an EV has the same range and can fully recharge in the same frame as my gasser then...and only then...will I consider an EV. to each their own.

...

when it goes on sale in 2019, let me know if they succeed in getting it cheaper than a Bolt which is still 35k.

You can't buy an EV kona right now. And initially I hear it'll only be Cali and east coast availability.

Front wheel drive is ok, hopefully they make an AWD version too, but that'll drive the price up as well. I want my BASE model EV with just AC and 200+ mile range, all for under 35k... Tesla disappointed me. My buddy finally spent 56k for his $35,000 Model 3 wundercar. He does like it, but I already see the glimmerings of "quality control" dying in his eyes. A few bits of trim not fitting, etc, software update woes... this must be typical of buying a brand new car nowadays.

Oh wait. Nope, I bought a brand new Jeep with no issues.

Oops, off topic, my bad.

pianotuna wrote:
There are a lot of folks who are playing Ostrich. Climate change is real and our addition and addiction to energy use is causing changes which used to take 1000's of years in tens of years.

I'm glad I do not have grand children because there may well be shortages of many things that we currently take for granted.

We only have one planet and 7.6 billion people is too much for the biosphere.

It may be time to reconsider the use of the 28' class C? V-10?

Every time you turn the key it spews a massive amount of CO2 into the biosphere not to mention a whole lot of other nastiness, and no amount of solar on the roof is going to even begin to offset it. The power going through the Sola and Microair most likely is not coming from hydro or a windfarm either.

Where is Al when he is needed?

Thanks for the link TechWriter.

There are a lot of folks who are playing Ostrich. Climate change is real and our addition and addiction of energy use is causing changes which used to take 1000's of years to happen in tens of years.

I'm glad I do not have grand children because there may well be shortages of many things that we currently take for granted.

We only have one planet and 7.6 billion people is too much for the biosphere.

2oldman wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
If you can figure out a way, I think the first thing you should power up is your moral compass.

Seriously.

So now some good camper citizens are thinking about abusing a charging station? Yikes. Reminds me of "An RVer is someone who spends $250,000 on a motorhome and looks for a free place to stay."

LOL....Like the 250K rig that is at Quartzite or some geezer park in Florida, and the owner stands in line for 2 hours to get a free $1.75 breakfast?


Seriously Indeed....just when you think you have seen it all at RV.net......along comes a topic/thread such as this.

Now.....off to check the ole moral compass.

2oldman wrote:
You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's a common misconception, and not true. Science actually knows how to measure this stuff, even if you don't believe it.

Science is based on falsifiable hypothesis. Measuring things is fine, but as they say, past performance may not be indicative of future results. Climate science, isn't. It's computer models which are constantly adjusted when they're shown to be inaccurate (false). A common statement is that weather is not climate (weather is short term, climate long term), but the sayers have no issue with adjusting their models in the short term time frame and then claiming them to model climate.

I'm not claiming that man doesn't have an effect on climate. But climate is also undeniably chaotic. 20K years ago, my property was covered in 600 feet of ice. Then it got warmer. It's still getting warmer. If history is a judge, at some point it will start getting colder.

Having said that, I also don't mean to claim that man isn't causing significant climate change. That may well be, but such claims are made by those who earn their living from supporting such claims, which are far from scientific. If someone thinks their model of chaotic climate is an accurate predictor, they should also be able to predict the stock market. Good luck.

IMO, the root issue is overpopulation. Even if you disagree with the above, it remains that more population requires more energy use, the most convenient and cheapest of which is still fossil fuel. Malthusian collapse has only been delayed.

Finally, don't read the above to be a statement that reducing our impact on the planet shouldn't be a goal. Although nature goes where it goes, we should aspire to have a minimal impact upon it.

I'm done. This thread has gone way off topic.

2oldman wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

What next, man puts stoppers into volcanoes? One active volcano puts out far more "pollution" in one day than all of the supposed pollution man has in centuries...

You can roll your eyes all you want, but that's a common misconception, and not true. Science actually knows how to measure this stuff, even if you don't believe it.

x2