Expanding AC distribution panel
I'm looking at options for expanding the AC dist. on a Parallax 6300 dist. panel.
Forum Discussion
55 Replies
- "The 75 amp converter will pull approx. 1690VA from 120 input when doing 75 amps/14.x output. (that converter has PF of 0.73) So sharing a circuit with the fridge on electric is dubious..>> It would work if the converter were only doing regular 13.6v work at low amps output <<.
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14.075 amps? I would need to ask how often is a 75 watt converter going to pull ~14 amps from AC when connect to no batteries and only used for 12 volt lighting and an absorption refrigerator?
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To clarify as needed---
I have a 75 amp PowerMax(ADJ.) same specs as unit you are getting. Running it set at 14.8vDC from a 3000w Honda inverter gen, and using a Kill-a-Watt meter, I got:
123.8v, 13.64a, 1693VA, 1241w, PF 0.73 as 120v input, with DC output
75.0 a, battery v 14.08 rising. So 1056w output using the 14.08 or else 1110w using the set 14.8.
1056w out for 1241w in is 85% efficiency, similar to other converters' spec efficiencies.
EDIT-BTW, IMO that way to measure efficiency is self-serving by ignoring the PF. I think it should use the output with the DC voltage set (14.8) and not the battery voltage at the time, but also should use the actual draw from the power source as the input, so that would make it 1110/1693 = 65.6%
On inverter efficiency, there is no advantage for PSW over MSW when running resistive loads like a toaster, but there is when running inductive loads like a microwave or a motor. But there are MSW inverters rated to run motors--they get it done. The PSW ones cost way more, so there is the usual trade-off.
I don't mind running the microwave on MSW with a motor rated inverter. Takes a little longer to cook something but so what? Actually it uses less battery in AH even though it takes longer, because the PSW would draw 1500w, (150 DC amps) while the MSW draws more like 120 DC amps for say two minutes longer.
The main reason to have the inverter is to make proper toast in the early morning before generator or noise hours. If you sleep in till generator noise hours are in effect, then make your toast, that's different. :) BFL13 wrote:
The 75 amp converter will pull approx. 1690VA from 120 input when doing 75 amps/14.x output. (that converter has PF of 0.73) So sharing a circuit with the fridge on electric is dubious. It would work if the converter were only doing regular 13.6v work at low amps output.
14.075 amps? I would need to ask how often is a 75 watt converter going to pull ~14 amps from AC when connect to no batteries and only used for 12 volt lighting and an absorption refrigerator?
If you ever go off-grid on whole house inverter, you want to shut off the converter and have the fridge on gas, so that would be easy if they shared. OTOH if the converter has its own breaker it is easy and you can just unplug the fridge 120 outside if it won't stay on gas by itself instead of auto to 120.
If I were to go off-grid for an extended length of time (months or longer) because of the climates where I'm at there would be little or no solar and I would mainly use a genny and most likely have a battery bank to maintain for off-grid. So the genny would be used part time for AC and to maintain a battery bank. I'm not certain if I would want to rely on a battery bank and inverter when compared to a genny
With the 7300 converter sharing with receptacles and you want the receptacles to stay live, you can insert a switch on the converter's black wire on its way to the breaker before where it joins the receptacles' black wire at the breaker.
The MW/WH one or the other switch (like in our 5er) trick can be used with anything that shares. Just means "power management" by the "operator". Lots of that when RVing anyway when using high draw appliances (shut off fridge 120 for a couple minutes while making toast eg) if on limited shore power. The more you do that, the fewer extra breakers needed.
I have a couple of modified sine wave inverters an Xantrex 1750 plus and a Trip-Lite PV2000FC is described as PWM sine wave. However for off grid true sine wave inverters are preferred and more efficient.
When I go off-grid in the past it's been mainly in the wilderness, so I more or less camp out and use the frig to preserve food. It's better than using a tent as you have a toilet, running, water, gas catalytic heater, etc. However I have several canvas tents I sometimes used as the RV can't really go off-road same as a Jeep. Though some RVers do get back in the woods quite a ways ans will stay out the entire summer in wilderness areas. Hunters use RV off-road in the winter months. I often go past their camps in up to a few feet of snow when it's very cold out. They set of hunting camps that are comprised of tents and rvs. Often they have large tarps where they have fires going for keeping warm, cooking etc. One problem with some RVs is there not rugged enough for off-road use unless they've been modified as are some 4x4 motorhomes that can go nearly anywhere and built for off-road use.time2roll wrote:
You can remove the single on the right and put in a double 15/20 to give one extra.
yes that's what I was thinking of doing unless I wanted to keep the AC then i would find a small breaker box and install in the space underneath where the converter use to be.
however after finding the cover I think the far right is a breaker for the microwave which is a single hot wire connections to a dual breaker. (which I previously thought was for AC)
The metal cover from left to right shows.
Main - Option Air Cond. - Portable appliances - General Purpose - Microwave.
So I would need to connect the AC (air cond.) breaker to the micro and use the microwave space for a 15/20 breaker- You can remove the single on the right and put in a double 15/20 to give one extra.
- My Progressive Dynamics PD9280 I cut the cord while under warranty something went wrong, sent it into them using a RMA and a couple weeks later go a bill from then in US mail for $150.00. Called them up and was told I had cut the AC cord which voided their warranty.
Anyway just for peeace of mind or if I ever need to connect another PD underwarranty I thought I would install a fused AC recepticle for the converter.
Also for poeace of mind I would like the freezer power that has a powerstrip were on can plug other electics such as an electric weed wacker, power tool, etc. to also be fused with breaker at it's source connection to the 6300.
so i think i'm either going to use the AC (air. cond.) breaker spot or install a small breaker panel of two to four breakers spaces.
30 amps not much to work with but I'm fairly conscious about using electic on a 30 amp service which I've been connected to for ~10 years.
I don't really need all that much electric except for the frig and my computer that's connected to a AVR. The only other AC I use is for an electric grinder, weed wacker and an 1800 psi pressure washer I use once in a while for cleaning.
My other breakers on the 6300 are double combo breakers green, red and blue in color.
green = 30 amp
blue = 15 amp
red = 20 amp
Not much room to take a pic with my camera. I have other wiring there for a power meter that tells me how many watts and kilowatts are being used, displays voltage, current, power and energy.
From left to right it's green + red + red + blue + blue
30 amp + 20 amp + 20 amp + 15 amp + 15 amp
The double wide large breaker on the far right is a 15 amp for the AC which I could remove and use the space the freezer/shed and the converter.
- OK the story is starting to come together. I do not think you need any additional breakers. Although please confirm is that center breaker a two pole? Looks like one switch but connections for two branch circuits.
You can just cut the cord on the new converter and connect direct same as the old converter. If you prefer not to cut the cord consider a pigtail to plug into and just connect the pigtail same as the old converter.
Same goes for the 5 amp freezer. Just use the exterior outlet. Regardless of how many subpanels and additional breakers you add you are still limited to 30 amps. I would just rebalance the existing circuits to fit these in and make it work.
Above I posted a load shed device that can put two heavy items on one circuit. If it temporarily cuts off your converter or the electric water heater while you use the microwave I doubt you would even notice. myredracer wrote:
Andonso wrote:
myredracer wrote:
What is your load requirement? More circuits for intermittent, seldom used loads or for say electric heat in the winter & higher demand than normal? A lot can be squeezed out of 30 amps depending on needs and 30 amps can be run continuous at 30 amps (unless a pedestal breaker is tired) and in fact can be run over 30 amps for a bit depending on how much over and for how long (it's how breakers work).
My load requirement aren't great except when I need to use an electric pressure washer that likes to trip my breakers.
I have a 5 amp freezer, conveter, 12 volt lighting and 12 volts for the frigs.
In the winter I run a ceramic element electric heater with thermostat
on the low setting. As most electric heaters will blow 20 amp breakers for a 30 amp service when set to high.
I also have a Samsung 1300 watt convection oven that's 900 watt micro and 1300 convection. Hasn't caused any problem what so ever connected to the RV's microwave receptacle.
I'm planning on removing the batteries so the converter really only needed for dc lighting and the frig.Andonso wrote:
Chris Bryant wrote:
Really the only practical way to upgrade is go to 50 amp service, and make the 6300 a sub panel.
One problem with 50 amp RVs is they often trip breaker panels in RV Parks with no 50 amp service. Normally 50 amp RVs will have an adapter for 30 amp service and the park may have warning signs not to run high wattage equipment such as air conditioning, etc.
My point is that there is no reason to modify it unless you are having a higher amperage service. The NEC is pretty common sense about that. Trying to just add circuits to a 30 amp 120 volt service is just going to result in nuisance tripping.
Just because you have a 50 amp service doesn't mean you are going to use 12,000 watts, rather than the 3600 watts a 30 amp service has available.
FWIW, I'm very familiar with the NEC, and park wiring.time2roll wrote:
Do you want more power or are you talking yourself out of it?
How many breakers do you have? How many do you need?
My current Parallax 6300 pane has three breaker spaces.
here's a pic of a 6300, mine is installed directly on the floor under a bathroom sink. I'm planning on installing a new converter in a cupboard on the floor adjacent to the 6300. The new converter will require a 120 VAC three prong receptacle.
I've rented a rv space full time for the last 10 years and have a plastic storage shed and a cargo trailer. The shed has a 5 amp freezer of which I want to supply power from the RV's AC dist. panel or addon breaker. The cargo trailer I have it plugged into the RV AC outside receptacle to supply power to e.g. a battery charger where I maintain batteries not in use.
Also my converter went bad so I purchased Powermaster 75 amp PM4 to replace the PD9280 that no longer put's out DC.
So I need two single or a dual breakers min. 10amp and 15 amp for the freezer and converter.
The converter requires an AC receptacle outlet whereas the freezer can be wired directly to the breaker.
I'm thinking of removing and using the breaker in the 6300 that's for the AC (air cond.) or installing a small breaker panel underneath
such as e.g. a Homeline 70 Amp 2-Space 4-Circuit Indoor Flush Mount Main Lug Load Center with Cover
i.e. If I can find one small enough that will fit underneath or in the cupboard next to the converter.
Note: the 75 amp watt converter won't really need to ever damand 75 amps from AC as it's only going to be used primarily for 12 volt lighting and to run the frig. I picked it up used for the same or similar prica as a 35 amp. Currently the RV is connected to a 10 amp converter without any problem while charging two RV batteries.
If all your DC electrical needs is for lighting and and 12 volts to run an absorption frig. You can get away using a 10 amp converter or battery charger.Andonso wrote:
myredracer wrote:
What are you working on and trying to accomplish?
I lived in a RV full time for more than 25 years. The one I'm currently in is designed for travling, iirc it's a weekender. not really designed for full timing.
What is your load requirement? More circuits for intermittent, seldom used loads or for say electric heat in the winter & higher demand than normal? A lot can be squeezed out of 30 amps depending on needs and 30 amps can be run continuous at 30 amps (unless a pedestal breaker is tired) and in fact can be run over 30 amps for a bit depending on how much over and for how long (it's how breakers work).
