Four Season Packages

GON2SKI wrote:
Finally figured the function of unidentified switches that the dealer/walk thru tech did not know……….One is a 110V tank heater switch and the other was a 12V tank heater switch to use traveling or dry camping. Life is good.

Sounds like you're good to go skiing in that AF. We almost bought one for our first camper. In fact, I looked at them this winter, but they no longer make their biggest one and we needed something larger. I think they make a great rig from what I hear.

Finally figured the function of unidentified switches that the dealer/walk thru tech did not know……….One is a 110V tank heater switch and the other was a 12V tank heater switch to use traveling or dry camping. Life is good.

Biggest difference in the 4 season rigs is the sealed underbelly and heated tanks. Many have upgraded insulation too. Our new Windjammer came with all that stuff although we don't need it in Calif. I don't think I'll ever turn the heated tanks on, though I could someday. The sealed underbelly is nice though.

I think there are some units out there where they add a "4-seasons" label and it's not really a true 4-seasons trailer. I've seen a number of owners say that. It's kind of like manufacturer's who add a "1/2 ton towable" label, but when you look at the hard numbers, that's not necessarily the case unless you have a specially equipped TV.

I would study the specs in detail on a trailer if you want a 4-seasons unit. I think Outdoors RV has a good package on theirs and they they talk about it on their website. Maybe even visit the plant if possible.

A lot of trailers these days have a heated and enclosed underbelly. When they say heated, they just run a duct from the furnace into the enclosed space and call it "heated". It's not very efficient and you are blowing heated air into the outdoors. I have a feeling that the heat is not very well distributed either. I would suggest pulling down the coroplast and adding electric heating on the tanks and upgrading the insulation as much as possible. Then remove the duct take-off into the floor cavity.

For those that want to do extended cold weather camping in really cold temps., IMHO, there's more to think about. Cooking, showering and human bodies release a large amount of moisture into the interior of an RV. Ventilation of the interior in cold weather is important. Most want to seal up the interior as much as possible to keep warm air in. But you must get moisture in the air out. The easiest way is to crack open the ceiling vents and a window or two. If you don't, you will get moisture condensing inside the wall and ceiling cavities which can eventually cause major damage. I've even read about some that have had moisture raining down on them from the ceiling from condensation. A major flaw in the design of RVs is that the vapor barrier (aka vapor retarder) is on the wrong side of a wall and ceiling. In a house, it MUST be on the interior side by code so that warm moisture laden air CANNOT get into the wall and ceiling cavities. The roof membrane and exterior skin on an RV is the impervious layer. Add to that, there is insufficient insulation thickness to keep what is known as the "dew point" far enough away from the exterior surface and moisture in the air can condense within the wall or ceiling cavity.

What to do about the above? No easy answer. I would perhaps look at upgrading the furnace for a higher btu output to help compensate for venting the interior and just accept the higher propane useage. Eliminating the duct into the underbelly space will help this too. Use a dehumidifier. Get a hygrometer to monitor the interior moisture level. Double pane windows will help - not a lot for heat loss, but more for reducing condensation on the glass (and sound).

The quality of installing insulation in ceiling cavities is not always that great. They often just pack it in there with little care. Fiberglass should not be compressed and it should be evenly distributed. Trusses, wiring, speakers, AC vents, etc. all interfere with installing the insulation and they don't take the time to properly fit it. Why should they too, there's no code they have to comply with. If it were me, and wanted a well insulated unit, I would consider removing the ceiling panels and improving the insulation. Probably not for the average person, but wouldn't bother me too much. Just time-consuming. Maybe a lot of work, but a lot cheaper than buy a new well insulated trailer. By doing this and upgrading the underbelly, you might even get a better insulated trailer than a factory done one.

In regards to moisture in a wall or ceiling cavity, if fiberglass insulation gets moisture in it, the R value goes down, and can be significant. Then, as the moisture builds up and the R value drops, more moisture can condense, further worsening the situation. Add to this, voids in the insulation and compressed insulation in a ceiling, the ceiling cavity can be the highest risk area for moisture problems. IMO, fiberglass insulation is a poor choice in RVs, but unfortunately, that's what is the industry standard. I'd rather see extruded polystyrene rigid foam or even polyisocyanurate (high R value). Expanded polystyrene is used in exterior walls of RVs, but it easily absorbs moisture.

Incidentally, we tried to get double pane windows on our current TT but were told that the factory only had 13 requests for them in the past 5 years or so and dropped them as an option.

Just my 2 cents for early in the morning from an engineering point of view.....

Skirting will help a lot, but a pain if you move frequently.

I wouldn't fret over it too much. Mine has the extreme package with dual pane and the alum bubble wrap- I can't remember the real name of it. The wrap is only good for about 2 R and the reflective quality is non-existent w/o an air gap next to the wrap. I just do a thorough AC service including coil cleaning and sealing the plenums and dividers and it pulled the inside temp down from 101 to 83 in an hour. I don't know how much of that is from the windows and how much is from the wrap since we've never had either. Heat xfer thru single panes is a BIGGIE and I think you are already half way there as far as R value but you need to consider the tanks and water lines. Craig

cekkk

You could get tank heaters if you are where you have hook ups.

I think you would find a noticeable difference in the insulation between a Jayco and an Excel.
Excel 5'ers are known for their cold weather ability.

I agree it may not be worth trading for one but there are manufacturers that specialize in true for season units vs. 4 seasons units that are more marketing hype than actual insulation.

If you have actual issues the RV can be upgraded a bit.