heating electrically

Don - I was always hoping the closed hot water loop would slow that process down some but you are probably correct in as soon as you start moving the hot water in the closed loop it would cool it down enough to turn on the hot water heater element.

To me this is alot different of pulling hot water out of the system which would be immediately replaced with cold water. The new cold water added to the hot water tank would most definitely cool down the hot water system requiring the heat elements to be turned on.

Even if that happens for me it still would be a big PLUS for the smaller amount of heat I would need...

I wouldn't have to idle the MH all night long to keep heat going haha...

Roy Ken

Hi Roy,

No. I've investigated hydronic a bit. Unless my water heater dies and I can "upgrade" to one that uses heat from the engine.

As soon as you draw heat from the water heater--the electric element would "kick in" so there is no real savings by going hydronic--other than avoiding the power draw from the furnace fan.

There would be a "convenience" factor of always having hot water "on tap". I could place the heat exchanger where the fan that replaces the furnace grill could distribute the heat.

I think the efficiencies running propane in the furnace and water heater are pretty much the same.

Don - I know you have discussed this before but did you play with the HYDRONIC method heating using the MH water Heater for source of hot water in the heat registers. I remember you saying the power to keep the water heater hot wasn't all that much with its normal cycling.

Running a couple of Hydronic heat zones around the MH might help out alot...

When I get back into the off road trips again that is definitely going to be my primary source of heat for my OFF-ROAD Trailer. Will do away with the OEM propane gas heater and blower system. I will only have a 4000BTU heat system and a good blankets haha... My battery system already accommodates me using a two zone low wattage electric blanket.

Of course my small floorplan is quiet abit smaller then yours but the idea is still there. Hydronic Heat is a very clean heat source.

Roy Ken

The problem with solar which you are already experiencing, is the amount of usable sun-light already.

You are likely down to 6 hours solar charging, and 18 hours of coping. Then the BIG IF comes in. Do you have a cloudy day, or cold clear day with sun?

Here in Minnesota we have had mostly cloudy days since middle of October, and colder than normal weather. The skies have cleared the last five days but temperatures have been staying below 32F (day and night).

I think you are already seeing what I was worrying about when we all were discussing, during the summer, the coming experiment for this winter season.

Mark B.

Hi Almot,

I'd actually need two of the 5200 btu units (equates to ~3000 watts) That would be another draw back. At that cost level I might be better off with a "through the wall" heater.

On the other hand, I can buy quite a bit of gasoline for the generator, and leave things as they are.

I'd really rather beef up my solar than purchase a propane heater.

Don, - maybe you can get 2 Cats. There was installation of 2 Cats in a truck camper. I see that he added legs to one of the cats, and a flexible exhaust hose, so it can be moved around a little.

http://s276.photobucket.com/user/2old4this58/library/Okanagan%20Camper%20Cat%20heater%20install

MrWizard wrote:

and at these temps, any unvented combustion heater is going to be a potential source of lots of water for condensation issues. 3 quarts of water for every gallon of propane burned. Reason enough for us to not use a unvented propane heater in the trailer and minimize use of the stove/oven.

where did you get these numbers

i have never seen anything like that amount of water/condensation in our rv and we use an olympic wave, and a blue flame heater depending on ambient temps

Propane is C3H8. Molar mass is about 44g. Water is H2O, at 18g. So, 4 * 18 / 44 = 1.6x. Thus, about 1.6lb of water per lb of propane. Density of propane is 0.507, vs. 1 for water. 1.6*.507 = 0.81 gal water per gallon of propane.

Other links will give very similar results.


There are multiple links that will give the amount of Carbon dioxide and water produced when burning various hydrocarbons. for propane it's slightly over 3 quarts water per gallon of propane burned. And depending on the heater it takes a while to burn a gallon of propane. An olympic wave heater is around 3K-6KBTU/hr IIRC and gallon of propane has about 80KBTU.

Now you won't see that much condensation because the water is dispersed into the volume of air you have,raising the relative humidity. And air can hold a large amount of water. In a dry climate, that can be good raises the RH. In a condition where you are near the dew point. Not good.

One reason I don't run a unvented heater in Oregon winters, RH is already near 100%, already need a dehumidifier to keep condensation down adding more water isn't going to help the situation.

Now if I was in some places where the winter is very dry (Montana for example, wake up with a sore throat often from how dry it is), raising the RH is a good thing.

Hi,

I actually in the past have run a humidifier in cold months. I guess that is one advantage of super low temperatures. I really have not ever had any condensation issues.

Currently it is -6 C (21.2 f) and the dew point is -11 C (13 f).

RV is sitting at 21.6 C (71.4 f)

Hi Almot,

Finding a suitable location for the Platinum Cat. It would pretty much have to be in the bedroom on the wall for the commode--and would have to be up from the floor by five feet. There really is NOT a good location. Price would not be an issue.

This will be the only year that I'll attempt to be in Canada for Dec Jan and Feb. From now on I will refuse to book clients at those times, so really I'll be snow birding from mid November to Mid March.

This year I'll be gone from Dec 14 to Jan 22.

Almot wrote:
Is there any reason - other than the price - why you are not using Platinum Cat?

and at these temps, any unvented combustion heater is going to be a potential source of lots of water for condensation issues. 3 quarts of water for every gallon of propane burned. Reason enough for us to not use a unvented propane heater in the trailer and minimize use of the stove/oven.

where did you get these numbers

i have never seen anything like that amount of water/condensation in our rv and we use an olympic wave, and a blue flame heater depending on ambient temps