I have been torturing myself, trying to develop some sort of a decision tree to see if I should convert to lithium batteries. I have searched the archive for a "lithium for dummies" thread and have come up empty. (If I'm wrong, I am sure someone will let me know! ;) )So that is what I am humbly asking for -- is there a really easy to understand site or article that explains or compares lithium batteries to lead/acid batteries for RV use and then guides the shopper through the steps needed to come to a conclusion?Or maybe this thread can serve as a resource for those of us (like me) who do not have technical backgrounds?In any event, here are my particular questions:Aside from the obvious cost difference (which may or may not be a deal killer), my three biggest concerns are weight, capacity, and cold weather charging. Weight: I am in my eighth decade (!) and am having trouble lifting a group 31 lead acid battery without hurting my back. It looks like lithium is a clear winner on that issue.Capacity: I'm satisfied with the capacity of a group 31 -- it's nominally at 110 amp/hours, which means I can get about 55 amp/hours from the battery without risk of damage to the battery. Am I correct in concluding that if I were to get a lithium battery with 100 amp/hour capacity, I could use almost all of that capacity?Cold weather: What does one do about charging a lithium battery when camping in sub-freezing weather? We really like snow camping -- is that a deal killer? We are almost never subjected to temps below ten degrees. And the daytime usually warms up to around 30 or so.Thanks in advance for your help and advice -- and on behalf of all of us dummies, thanks for keeping it as simple as you can!

I went from an 83lb 150 a/h lead acid battery to a 33lb 125 a/h lithium in large part because of the weight. My battery lives on the tongue wrapped in a battery heater wrap that is powered by the battery itself, so I can charge in below freezing temps. There are now many batts with internal heaters that would be an easy solution to low temp charging.Besides the weight savings, the other main reason for us going to lithium was the faster generator charging to full on low solar days. I've cut my genny running time by 2/3 when parked in the shade, which is typical for us on days we aren't traveling. I do have a good stand-alone 60 amp charger with a lithium setting.You can use almost all the available a/h in a lithium. If you don't have a good battery monitor and are just guesstimating the amps in and out you'll have to be conservative and leave a decent buffer on the bottom end to ensure the fridge and furnace keep running through the night.

profdant139 wrote:I have been torturing myself, trying to develop some sort of a decision tree to see if I should convert to lithium batteries. I have searched the archive for a "lithium for dummies" thread and have come up empty. (If I'm wrong, I am sure someone will let me know! ;) )So that is what I am humbly asking for -- is there a really easy to understand site or article that explains or compares lithium batteries to lead/acid batteries for RV use and then guides the shopper through the steps needed to come to a conclusion?Or maybe this thread can serve as a resource for those of us (like me) who do not have technical backgrounds?In any event, here are my particular questions:Aside from the obvious cost difference (which may or may not be a deal killer), my three biggest concerns are weight, capacity, and cold weather charging. Weight: I am in my eighth decade (!) and am having trouble lifting a group 31 lead acid battery without hurting my back. It looks like lithium is a clear winner on that issue.yes aproximatly 1/2 the weight. I replaed two 79 lb 6V batteries that gave me 104 usable AH with one 300AH LifePo4 that weighs 48lbs.Capacity: I'm satisfied with the capacity of a group 31 -- it's nominally at 110 amp/hours, which means I can get about 55 amp/hours from the battery without risk of damage to the battery. Am I correct in concluding that if I were to get a lithium battery with 100 amp/hour capacity, I could use almost all of that capacity?yes, but with a condition. you will only get the minimum rated cycles , but if you stay a little off the top and bottom, and keep to deciently shallow discharges, you can greatly improve the cycle life. so instead of 3000 cycles you could get as high as 7000 depending how you set it up and what kind of cells they used.Cold weather: What does one do about charging a lithium battery when camping in sub-freezing weather? We really like snow camping -- is that a deal killer? We are almost never subjected to temps below ten degrees. And the daytime usually warms up to around 30 or so.there is no off hasing with these batteries so you can move them into the living space. got a cabnet you never use or a space some where else. you can dischare to -20C or -30C if they use the K varent of cell so once you get the furnace going and the space warmed up there is no issue. or some people just use a heating pad and some insulation around the battery to keep it warm. lots of ways to get around this.Thanks in advance for your help and advice -- and on behalf of all of us dummies, thanks for keeping it as simple as you can!

A new feature now is a Lithium battery with a self-heating feature. It uses a small portion of it's stored power to heat itself up.You should be able to google that, lithium iron phosphate battery with self heating.And as noted above, you can keep them inside the coach, or in a heated bay, and all will be fine.

profdant139 wrote:Cold weather: What does one do about charging a lithium battery when camping in sub-freezing weather? We really like snow camping -- is that a deal killer? We are almost never subjected to temps below ten degrees. And the daytime usually warms up to around 30 or so.Lithium batteries should not be charged when temps drop below freezing. Doing so could damage the battery.At the very least, buy lithium batteries that have a built-in BMS (Battery Management System) that also have low temp sensors which will turn the batteries off when they get too cold. Getting batteries with internal heaters is also a possibility.If you like snow camping, then make sure you at least have lithium batteries with low-temp sensors. Relying on "warm" battery compartments is foolish.However, be advised that many (most?) inexpensive lithium batteries do NOT have low temp sensors or heaters. Make sure before you buy.

profundant,20% to 85% for Li, so the 100 amp-hour has 75 amp-hours that are usable.charge them to 100% once every 30 days to reset the battery management system.Use a dc to DC charger for alternator protection, if planning to charge from the engine.I can't use LI where I live. Too cold for them. For those that can avoid cold LiFeP04 are the cat's meow.I would go for SiO2 myself.

Lithium for dummies: need advice in simple terms

96 Replies

profdant139
Explorer II
Dec 06, 2022
Great point about the absence of out-gassing -- I did not know that, and it would make it possible to bring the battery inside.

If only I had some extra room! Very tiny trailer -- 12 foot box, believe it or not.

Keep those comments coming -- thanks to all of you!
pianotuna
Nomad III
Dec 06, 2022
profundant,

20% to 85% for Li, so the 100 amp-hour has 75 amp-hours that are usable.

charge them to 100% once every 30 days to reset the battery management system.

Use a dc to DC charger for alternator protection, if planning to charge from the engine.

I can't use LI where I live. Too cold for them. For those that can avoid cold LiFeP04 are the cat's meow.

I would go for SiO2 myself.
TechWriter
Explorer
Dec 06, 2022
profdant139 wrote:
Cold weather: What does one do about charging a lithium battery when camping in sub-freezing weather? We really like snow camping -- is that a deal killer? We are almost never subjected to temps below ten degrees. And the daytime usually warms up to around 30 or so.

Lithium batteries should not be charged when temps drop below freezing. Doing so could damage the battery.

At the very least, buy lithium batteries that have a built-in BMS (Battery Management System) that also have low temp sensors which will turn the batteries off when they get too cold. Getting batteries with internal heaters is also a possibility.

If you like snow camping, then make sure you at least have lithium batteries with low-temp sensors. Relying on "warm" battery compartments is foolish.

However, be advised that many (most?) inexpensive lithium batteries do NOT have low temp sensors or heaters. Make sure before you buy.
OkieGene
Explorer
Dec 06, 2022
A new feature now is a Lithium battery with a self-heating feature. It uses a small portion of it's stored power to heat itself up.

You should be able to google that, lithium iron phosphate battery with self heating.

And as noted above, you can keep them inside the coach, or in a heated bay, and all will be fine.
StirCrazy
Moderator
Dec 06, 2022
profdant139 wrote:
I have been torturing myself, trying to develop some sort of a decision tree to see if I should convert to lithium batteries. I have searched the archive for a "lithium for dummies" thread and have come up empty. (If I'm wrong, I am sure someone will let me know! ;) )

So that is what I am humbly asking for -- is there a really easy to understand site or article that explains or compares lithium batteries to lead/acid batteries for RV use and then guides the shopper through the steps needed to come to a conclusion?

Or maybe this thread can serve as a resource for those of us (like me) who do not have technical backgrounds?

In any event, here are my particular questions:

Aside from the obvious cost difference (which may or may not be a deal killer), my three biggest concerns are weight, capacity, and cold weather charging.

Weight: I am in my eighth decade (!) and am having trouble lifting a group 31 lead acid battery without hurting my back. It looks like lithium is a clear winner on that issue.

yes aproximatly 1/2 the weight. I replaed two 79 lb 6V batteries that gave me 104 usable AH with one 300AH LifePo4 that weighs 48lbs.

Capacity: I'm satisfied with the capacity of a group 31 -- it's nominally at 110 amp/hours, which means I can get about 55 amp/hours from the battery without risk of damage to the battery. Am I correct in concluding that if I were to get a lithium battery with 100 amp/hour capacity, I could use almost all of that capacity?

yes, but with a condition. you will only get the minimum rated cycles , but if you stay a little off the top and bottom, and keep to deciently shallow discharges, you can greatly improve the cycle life. so instead of 3000 cycles you could get as high as 7000 depending how you set it up and what kind of cells they used.

Cold weather: What does one do about charging a lithium battery when camping in sub-freezing weather? We really like snow camping -- is that a deal killer? We are almost never subjected to temps below ten degrees. And the daytime usually warms up to around 30 or so.

there is no off hasing with these batteries so you can move them into the living space. got a cabnet you never use or a space some where else. you can dischare to -20C or -30C if they use the K varent of cell so once you get the furnace going and the space warmed up there is no issue. or some people just use a heating pad and some insulation around the battery to keep it warm. lots of ways to get around this.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice -- and on behalf of all of us dummies, thanks for keeping it as simple as you can!
mordecai81
Explorer
Dec 06, 2022
I went from an 83lb 150 a/h lead acid battery to a 33lb 125 a/h lithium in large part because of the weight. My battery lives on the tongue wrapped in a battery heater wrap that is powered by the battery itself, so I can charge in below freezing temps. There are now many batts with internal heaters that would be an easy solution to low temp charging.
Besides the weight savings, the other main reason for us going to lithium was the faster generator charging to full on low solar days. I've cut my genny running time by 2/3 when parked in the shade, which is typical for us on days we aren't traveling. I do have a good stand-alone 60 amp charger with a lithium setting.
You can use almost all the available a/h in a lithium. If you don't have a good battery monitor and are just guesstimating the amps in and out you'll have to be conservative and leave a decent buffer on the bottom end to ensure the fridge and furnace keep running through the night.

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Lithium for dummies: need advice in simple terms

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