PD9245 and Lifeline GPL-31XT testing

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Rolls has their work cut out for them just trying to match the Concorde battery. Sort of like finding a competitor for a MacIntosh tube-type audio system. When you hot you hot.

Well, maybe that's why Rolls chose Fullriver to re-brand an AGM battery for them .... because Rolls considers Fullriver AGM technology as already somewhat of a competitor to Concord AGM technology.

I say "somewhat" because:

Concorde's highest amp-hour true Group 31 size AGM battery (GPL-31XT) delivers 125 amp-hours for it's 74 lb. weight. This gives the Concorde a stored energy per pound efficiency ratio of 1.69 (125 divided by 74). Fullriver's highest amp-hour true Group 31 size AGM battery (DC115-12) delivers 115 amp-hours for it's 72.1 lb. weight. This gives the Fullriver a slightly lower stored energy per pound efficiency ratio of 1.60 (115 divided by 72.1).

(Of course the conclusion from my analysis above may be completely off ... because maybe the more lead in the battery per less stored energy per pound obtained from that lead may mean that the plates are thicker in the lower stored energy battery.)

By the way, I expect that Krell audio gear would give Macintosh a run for the money. ;)

When my laptop imitated a Generac I lost all the Regressive Dynamics references. Mil gracias. Thanks to my new found assortment of 10-turn pots I now can play Wheel Of Fortune with the 55-amp unit as well. Shoot I may even use that 11-position switch I got along with a decade of ptecision resistors. Decisions, decisions.

landyacht318 wrote:
Somebody here once modified a PD92XX for a different voltage.

I really like the size of the pd9245 for my application. Perhaps in the future I will figure out how to Modify it yet void the warranty, if more of this type of projects are in my future.

I wonder how many amps this lifeline 31 cold handle providing to an inverter and for how long. I am mating it with a 400watt PSW, but I imagine someone might be impressed with a higher number inverter.

Well, back to the power tools.

Here tiz da Link:

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28378659.cfm

Jim

Somebody here once modified a PD92XX for a different voltage.

I really like the size of the pd9245 for my application. Perhaps in the future I will figure out how to Modify it yet void the warranty, if more of this type of projects are in my future.

I wonder how many amps this lifeline 31 cold handle providing to an inverter and for how long. I am mating it with a 400watt PSW, but I imagine someone might be impressed with a higher number inverter.

Well, back to the power tools.

With your aptitude fitting a 40-amp Schottky rectifier as a voltage drop device should not be that big a deal. Wire it through a lever type battery cutout switch. When the switch is OFF the charger is routed through the rectifier. Flip it on and the schottky is bypassed. More N 1-way to remove a cat from it's covering. Beats buying chargers or settling for a lesser battery.

Anyone ever find out the plate thickness on a Fullriver 31?

That tall 31 is BCI sized just that - a group 31, but 11" in height. It has it's unique properties. Six cells, L-16 plates, and a manageable (by someone else) weight. A monster with only 700 CCA.

You folks probably weren't around to see the tar top 2-story 8-D batteries. Also 11" in height. In excess of 200 lbs each.

Concorde spent a fortune on their hyper-modern machinery and inspection devices. They could afford to do it with exclusive contracts for the B2, B1, F22, F18 Super Hornet and even the Space shuttle program. They charge the military through the snot box for military batteries.

Rolls makes the best NON SUBMARINE batteries in the world IMHO. But submarine batteries are in a class by themselves. With a price tag to match. Rolls has their work cut out for them just trying to match the Concorde battery. Sort of like finding a competitor for a MacIntosh tube-type audio system. When you hot you hot.

I was originally going for a couple of Rolls Surrette Group 31 deep cycle AGM batteries because the Rolls reputation throughout the world - and especially in the marine world - is superlative. Here's the Rolls model I was going to buy:
http://webstore.totalbattery.com/product-p/s12-128agm.htm

That is ... UNTIL ... a distributor in Florida told me that Rolls in Canada was not themselves making this particular high capacity AGM battery ... but that they would be ... soon. The distributor told me that Fullriver was making it for them!! Low and behold I checked the Fullriver website and this model of their's looks exactly like - and has the same specs as - the Rolls equivalent model, but with a different color case and with different writing on it. I then did further research on Fullriver in general and they seemed to also have a pretty solid reputation. The Fullriver model is not inexpensive, either, as is the case for the Rolls Surrette and the Lifeline batteries I was considering. Here's the Fullriver model I bought two of:
http://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/batteries/DC115-12

That 150 AH LIfeline AGM battery being talked about above is NOT Group 31 size - it's taller - so I was considering the Lifeline GPL-31XT model instead (which is true Group 31 size) ... until I found out from a phone call to Lifeline that they didn't want their AGM batteries floated/maintained any higher than 13.4 volts. This is too low for week after week on my ~13.6 volt converter when the RV is sitting in the back yard.

Note - as I've said many times before - I just finished putting over 8 1/2 years on a couple of Group 29 Interstate deep cycle AGM batteries - including an RV trip last month which included three days of drycamping with no battery charging other than the big Onan whenever we ran it for 5 minutes to microwave something, and during one hour-long engine idle run. Unfortunately those batteries probably still had life left in them, but I had to turn them in as core to get the two Fullrivers. What this goes to unscientifically show is that with long hours on a good old converter - along with intervals on a vehicle alternator - certain AGM batteries can last just fine. However, it takes an AGM battery built with just the right stuff so that it's float voltage can be in the 13.5V to 13.8V range to insure that they get FULLY charged but not dryed out, and kept that way, while in storage using a stock converter. When my AGM batteries get low, the stock converter also can charge them fast enough for us due to the very low internal resistance of AGM batteries.

I did think of you Pnichols when the PD had mysteriously dropped out of Boost and went into 13.6v 'normal' mode. The depleted Lifeline was still accepting 37 Amps at 13.6, and pressing the 14.4v boost button on the pendant again only raised amperage by 5.5 amps which is the limit of the PD9245 in my observation/ measurements.

I would not be able to accept a 13.6 or 13.8v maximum voltage of your parallax, and I'd personally not buy batteries specifically to make use of an old outdated single stage converter, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, and we can argue over the effectiveness of that skinning, without end or conclusion and without affecting the other's opinion.

Mating battery and charging source is wise, but if the charging source is limited, I'd not limit my battery choice.

I hear good things about Full River batteries, but only by people who have not had time to run a set through their lifespan. Most just say they are 'just fine' and only have a voltmeter and limited understanding of how a battery ages anyway.

All they really know it the batteries still meet their capacity requirements and are quite proud of that , and love to use the words 'just fine'.

One such Full River owner has a low opinion of Lifeline AGM as a friend o f a friend's wife's neighbor's cousin's friend had one which needed a professional 'reconditioning' after a year of too little low and slow solar, and they did not just outright warranty the improperly recharged battery.

I am impressed greatly with this Lifeline battery, not only in my 50% load test, but in the design of the terminals. Unthreading that silicon Bronze automotive post revealing a beautiful low profile silicon bronze female threaded mating surface below, with apparently an epoxy holding it in place instead of a heat pressed seal, is truly confidence inspiring.

I really wish the T-1275 came with such low profile terminals, it would simplify my intended mounting greatly.

The removal of the automotive post will allow my to mount the lifeline battery on its side, reducing height of the powerpack and increasing its ergonomics in intended use. I pulled the PD off the battery at 0.8 amps and 14.56V, because I needed to see if these posts could be easily removed.

Now, about 22 hours later the OCV is 13.23v

They used red thread locker on the threads.

Here is a pic of thick walled 2awg ring terminals compressed with my harbor fright hydraulic crimper and reground Dies. No ears!. All 8 tons of clamping force compressed the Lug properly:

It might even meet ABYC standards, once the adhesive lined heat shrink is in place. The 2awg is tinned marine wire from genuine Dealz. Pretty flexible for 2 awg. Way more flexible than store bought 4 gauge SAE.

For questions challenging manufacturer's explicit recommendations may I suggest spending a miniscule amount of energy and effort and contact the manufacturer directly. I did re the 13.2 float voltage and three weeks later schazaam the float voltage upper limit magically jumped to 13.4

I would hate think being in an incredibly remote location down here I had some special ability to gain knowledge of these facts over people living in the USA.
Internet searches are NOT the way to be assured of gaining accurate facts. And especially depressing are folks who do little if any actual fact gathering then start spouting gospel that is inaccurate.

A responsible company like Concorde is not going to let an educated salesman (applications engineer)run amok on the telephone spouting inaccurate information. I have encountered flaky companies who really do not belong in the business of manufacturing technical gear but they are in a minority.

Close the lid on the laptop and grab the cellular. Items re-branded in the USA but manufactured in China seldom have competent representation. I am glad I am out of the alternator rebuilding business because speaking with Chinese engineers would be a nightmare, modifications and upgrades are products of committee, and losing face haunts every design revision. Not like the good old days of hashing things out with Big Al Renard and Frank Oropeza of Transpo.

BUT Concorde Lifeline is a USA company working under Mil-Spec constraints. And minimum charging rates are indeed covered extensively and they would be glad to emphasize the how and why's over the phone.

The Lifeline PDF clearly states that a 20% rate is the minimum recommended charging current in repetitive deep cycle applications, which would be my usage.

goto page 20

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf

Hmmm ... where are you seeing that the GPL-30HT has a minimum charger rate of 20%?

For what it's worth, so far over the years I've not been able to find anywhere solid engineering statements stating that charging of a lead acid battery (AGM or wet) cannot be done slowly ... hence at low amperage rates. What I've found is that not charging them FULLY is the damage issue. RV batteries being exposed to low solar charging currents for hours upon hours still eventually fully charges them - just at relatively low current levels if one doesn't have a huge solar installation.

So far, I haven't been able to find the minimum 20% charging current requirement in either of these two Lifeline documents that apply to the their GPL-30HT battery:

- .pdf document for the GPL-30HT battery titled ... "manual.pdf"

- Word document for the GPL-30HT battery titled ... "GPL-30HT.doc"