Recycled oil

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Can someone respond and post a link to an unbiased report about any purported benefit of using synthetic motor oil?

I can probably dig up such a study, but there aren't many because to those in the industry it would be like having to get a study done about why a steak from grass-fed beef is better than ground beef from Costco.

The bottom line is that because conventional oil has several important short-comings that synthetic doesn't, namely;

The presence of waxes, which can lead to poor lubrication at low temperature.

Poor oxidation stability at continuously high temperatures, which can lead to sludge and acid buildup.

The dependence of viscosity on temperature, which can cause the base oil to thin excessively at high temperature.

A natural high temperature application limit of about 320°C (608°F), above which the base oil decomposes and begins to coke (turns to a sooty substance).

Now granted, in the case of most m/h's most of that isn't an issue, but in the case of say an F-150 with an EcoBoost engine as a TV it could be almost critical.

In the case of many vehicles, several of mine included, the synthetics really isn't any more money than conventional would be. It costs me ~$150 for an oil change, including 9 litres (9.5 quarts) of oil and a very high quality filter. However, that's only needs doing every 15,000 km (9,000 miles) or so. The vehicles computer monitors driving style and conditions as well as monitoring the oil itself and determines when it's time for an oil change. So if I pay about 3 x the price, and go about 3x the distance, I'm paying roughly the same.

64thunderbolt wrote:
I know that in a 7.3 or 6.0 the hpop will shear reg oil a lot sooner than syn. I run Rotella T6 in my 7.3 and get better Blackstone reports @ longer intervals. So it is worth the extra cost for the protection. Like someone stated before . I used to build high perf engines for others & my own cars. Never break in a new eng with syn cause the lubricity is so much better that the rings will not seat. Break it in with conventional oil then switch to syn.

That's interesting since I also do oil reports and several years ago I ran Shell ROtella in my 7.3 for like 5 oil changes and had higher iron in everyone of those than I had seen before with Delo. I then switched back to Delo and guess what the iron went back to the same levels as before I made the switch to Rotella. Point is my particular engine and how I use it simply did not like Rotella over Delo ... SO GO FIGURE. :h

I typically run around 4 to 5K on an oil change, but 60% and above of those miles are towing fairly heavy for my Van and in fact just yesterday mailed off my sample to Blackstone.

Larry

I know that in a 7.3 or 6.0 the hpop will shear reg oil a lot sooner than syn. I run Rotella T6 in my 7.3 and get better Blackstone reports @ longer intervals. So it is worth the extra cost for the protection. Like someone stated before . I used to build high perf engines for others & my own cars. Never break in a new eng with syn cause the lubricity is so much better that the rings will not seat. Break it in with conventional oil then switch to syn.

westend wrote:
Petroleum Quality Institute latest sample of Supertech

Basically, Supertech (Walmart's synthetic) is within the same ranges of all the other brands of synthetic motor oils.

Should be a no brainer (except to mystics)... FWIW, recycled oil may not be any more impure than certain crude stocks - depending on the crude source ( determines crude cost by the amount of upgrading reqd).

I run a minimum of 10,000 miles between oil changes in my Dodge Cummins. I now have 226,000 miles on it. I also use non-synthetic Rotella T. I'll probably go to hell for breaking all the oil "rules" but I have a secret weapon: I have my oil tested.

I started changing the oil at 4K miles and stretched the interval 1K miles after each test. 12K miles was where the tests started to show borderline oil quality so I rolled it back a bit to around 10K. I decided to use a little science to develop an oil change interval rather than listen to all the oil "experts" out on the net.

Blackstone Labs

Works well for me.

Bruce

Things like this make me glad I don't have a diesel. I don't spend $30 for oil at each change, let alone having the potential to spend 30 more for each change to use synthetic. I'm not sure what your 4000 miles equates to in time between changes, but it seems to me you're changing he oil a little too often. I think most vehicles can go between 7000 and 7500 or even longer. That's when synthetics shine anyway.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Can someone respond and post a link to an unbiased report about any purported benefit of using synthetic motor oil?

Mex, I can offer my personal experience with synthetic oil.

First let me present my qualifications to do engine work.
I spent my younger years as an automotive mechanic and moon-lighted in the local automotive machine shop. I am not unfamiliar with the workings on internal combustion engines.

I spent many years on an enduro dirt bike at 8K feet.
Making a 2 cycle engine run well at that altitude is difficult, at best.
When my 1982 PE 175 started to power down, I decided to change the piston rings and switch to Amsoil at the same time. BIG MISTAKE!
The Amsoil 2 cycle oil at 100-1, worked so well, it wouldn't let the rings scuff in. On a 2 cycle engine the blow-by dilutes the fuel charge just like a big EGR valve, thus no power.
After a disappointing week-end I purchased a new set of rings, deglazed the cylinder walls again and this time I broke it in with standard 2 cycle oil (Golden Spectro) at 50-1. Wala! The rings seated, I switch back to synthetic oil and wheeled off into the sunset.
So my point is, I believe synthetic oil reduces friction better than the old stuff. Thus my justification for spending the additional $$.
Your mileage may very. GRIN

Richard

Can someone respond and post a link to an unbiased report about any purported benefit of using synthetic motor oil? I blanched when I first read hype about synthetics, not that they weren't good lubricants, but rather justifying their significantly higher cost by claiming (outrageously) long intervals between oil changes. The word outrageously is bracketed because the word is my opinion.

My rationale goes like this...no matter how conscientious an owner may be, air filters can never trap 100.00% of particulate matter entering the engine. Filter media can stop a great percentage but not all contamination. I even apply silicone grease to help seal an air filter, but after 5-7,000 miles I can open the cannister and rub my finger across a previously wiped with alcohol (meaning absolutely sterile) section of the air intake plenum and rub my finger across my lip. It is grit I feel, albeit powder. How much has passed into the engine?

How much grit has passed the intake valves and ended up on cylinder walls and migrated past the piston rings and entered the lube oil? I don't know. But I do know engine oil filters can filter only down to "X" microns and that's it. I try and use Baldwin filters but they cannot filter 100%.

So grit builds up and a filter is helpless to contain it. The standard remedy is to flush out contaminated oil and replace it. But the synthetics say this is not necessary.

Yes I am aware of hydrocarbon production of acids due to interaction of petroleum gasoline with petroleum lube oil. But for the life of me I have never had to rebuild an engine that was corroded. Only worn out.

Are there factual tests that -prove- alcohol ester based lubricants lubricate better at day in and day out temperatures? SAE test data? I am aware of how a synthetic may provide much superior lubrication at extremely low temperatures during engine start up.

But I do not have cold temperature start up issues. Only concerns with grit contaminating the oil. If I switch to a synthetic and continue to change oil at 4,000 miles, how do I justify the aggregate increase in expense for synthetic? It's 200,000 miles divided by 4,000 mile increments. Fifty oil changes with a cost difference of around thirty dollars. One thousand five hundred dollars.

What does the one thousand five hundred dollars buy me?

I worked in a GM dealership many moons ago. We recycled our own oil, a very simple free process. Didja ever see oil that has been sitting in a 50 gal drum undisturbed for at least a year, maybe more, I kinda forgot. Anyway it looks like brand new oil.There were about 3 drums setting there. It was labeled "used car oil"....and was used only for that. We worked out of the oldest drum. In those days, many of us employees would buy it for .25 a quart.
Point being........?????:)

Dave H M wrote:

jfkmk wrote:
Why on earth would anyone use Walmart oil?

Tell us why you wouldn't.

The engine is one of the most expensive components of your vehicle. Oils such as Mobil 1 are not much more money than Walmart brand. You change the oil, what, 2 or 3 times a year? So you save a couple of bucks using walmart oil v good name brands and risk your engine?