Forum Discussion

Empty_Nest__Soo's avatar
Nov 26, 2014

Solar - Upgrade or replace outright?

The new-to-us coach has a small solar panel system. I would like to upgrade it to the point where I could reasonably hope to capture 50 or 60 amp-hours per day in light conditions that are less than ideal. I assume that to achieve this, I will probably need a system sized to produce 25 or 30 amps to get a real-life average of 5 or 6 amps for 10 hours. I’m not sure if any part of the current system can be salvaged for use in an upgraded system. Or if I should plan to replace everything.

Current system: According to the 1997 Safari brochure, it would appear that I have the 25 watt solar panel, plus the optional 75 watt panel. The build sheet lists only a “Siemens M65-BLK, CLA” panel. I have been unable to find specs for that on the internet.

On the roof of the coach, there are 2 panels. I see a Siemens label on the larger panel on the roof, but I see no model number. Probably it is on the bottom and the panel is fixed mounted. The large panel measures 47.25 inches by 20.75 inches and appears to have 36 cells in 4 rows of 9. The smaller panel has no visible identifier and measures 13.5 inches square. I’m sure the smaller one is a throw-away at this point. I’m not sure if the larger one can be incorporated into an expanded system.

The solar controller is labeled ASC Specialty Concepts, Inc., but has no visible model number or amperage rating. It’s not much bigger than a pack of playing cards. I expect that it, too, is a throw-away.

Although I know little about solar, the wire seems inordinately long. It comes down through the refrigerator vent, then forward about half the length of the coach to the controller under the hood on front. The battery bank is behind the rear wheels. The wire at the controller is AWG 10 THHN. I don’t know much about DC wiring, but this seems small for such a long run if it is expected to carry much power at 12 VDC.

The plan: What I envision is solar panels on the roof totaling 300 to 400 watts, with allowance for future upgrade, wired to produce 24 volts (which I assume would result in less loss over the run to the controller compared to 12 volts) to a 4-phase MPPT controller, which I would probably locate on the wall adjoining the refrigerator to keep the run as short as possible. From there it is also a relatively short run to the battery bank in back. Still, I would expect to need larger gauge cable to minimize current loss.

Does this seem a reasonable plan? Does this make all of the components of the current system obsolete? Or can anything reasonably be used for the new system?

I will appreciate the thoughts of those with more experience with solar!

Wayne

38 Replies

  • I would keep the old system, and sort of forget it is up there.

    THen install a new system hooked up to a new solar controller, directly to the coach battery with some #8 wire and it's own 30 - 40 amp fuse.

    I would be checking prices and shipping costs at several vendors, including this one. SunElec.com

    Make sure that you have open real estate on the roof for the size of the panels that you are looking at. In other words don't pick a 40" X 75" panel, and find out once it arrives that it will not fit anyplace! You really want to avoid shadows, such as the antenna, the A/C unit, and keep it around 4"from the sidewalls, and leave about 12" between the panels for walking forward, to do maintenance on the roof.

    Good luck!

    Fred.
  • in our 95 Safari.. I switched the OEM system to the chassis batteries
    Then bought panels for the house side
    My Siemens panels are 15.7 volt
    Anything you buy now will be at least 17+ volts and probably even higher
    Tying them together won't work very well
    And safari does make it...long wiring from roof vent to batteries
    I put the charge controller in the compartment under the fridge
    Then ran the charge wires backup and through the bottom of the closets to come out near the batteries
    The only way to get the controller closer..would be in the closet or in the bedroom
  • wired to produce 24 volts (which I assume would result in less loss over the run to the controller compared to 12 volts)
    Terminology is confusing. So called 12V panels are typically 18-20V and used for 12V battery systems with PWM controllers. Ditto 24V panels for 24V battery systems which almost no RV has.

    MPPT controllers open a new world where higher voltage panels can be used with lower voltage battery systems. My 3x series panels will produce about 100V at 8A. The MPPT controller will convert that to about 45A for my 12V batteries.

    Just ideas. You need to determine what works for you considering needs, budget and what fits on the roof, etc.
  • It depends how accurate your AH need figures are. I got 56AH a day at 49.3N in May with a 130w panel lying flat on sunny days. Your 100w total system would almost do that now at that place at that time of year.

    My first solar controller was an ASC 16 amper. It did a good job although it is a "shunt" type which shuts on and off once it starts controlling , instead of the more modern "series" type which holds the voltage while amps taper.

    You have all sorts of options here to add to your system, including keeping what you have and adding another panel and a second controller (about $15) on eBay and paralleling the new controller and the ASC on the battery bank to get more AH per day.

    Or you could start over with all new gear.
  • 2oldman wrote:
    Yeah, way too long for 12v. I'd go minimum 24v. I run 6 panels in series at 100+ volts @8amps thru 30' 10awg. Not much loss there.

    I used to run 360w at 12v, but the connectors at the controller (and various other places) got hot from the amperage.

    Yeah, my idea was to reduce the amps (and the necessary wire gauge) by increasing the voltage.

    As I said, I have little experience with DC circuits. I'm more familiar with AC wiring considerations, where there is less loss over distance.

    Wayne
  • Those 2 panels will at most maintain your batteries in storage with no other loads. Don't even consider a upgrade for your posted requirements. Plus you just might need the roof space they occupy. Maybe you could get $50+ on CL for those panels and apply it to the new solar or just go have a nice dinner.

    And with the current solar wiring run WOW, that's about as bad as it gets!

    I'm in the process of installing 3x 250W panels. Sounds like you could use 2 with a potential upgrade to 3. For that the MS MPPT 45 would do the job. I had several reasons for using the MPPT 60.

    There is a lot of good input on these boards but one bias is to mount panels 1" above the roof. So I looked at various 12V panels but realized that there were alternate mounting options. For me that's a 6" riser which will place the panels over a functional fan vent and skylight. Plus there will be virtually no shadows from adjacent AC's etc.
  • Empty Nest, Soon wrote:
    the wire seems inordinately long.,.. about half the length of the coach...The wire at the controller is AWG 10 THHN. ..this seems small for such a long run if it is expected to carry much power at 12 VDC........ wired to produce 24 volts (which I assume would result in less loss over the run to the controller compared to 12 volts)
    Yeah, way too long for 12v. I'd go minimum 24v. I run 6 panels in series at 100+ volts @8amps thru 30' 10awg. Not much loss there.

    I used to run 360w at 12v, but the connectors at the controller (and various other places) got hot from the amperage.

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