Forum Discussion
reed_cundiff
Jan 18, 2015Explorer
Mena - you should be able to run microwave with 160 amp-hr (1920 W-hr) if you have a 2.0 to 2.5 kW inverter. You would only be drawing C/1. I think our microwave pulls around 1750 W. Don't use it for more than 10 minutes with a 160 amp-hr battery bank.
400 amp-hours at 12 V nominal is 4.8 kW-hrs and lead acid runs 100# to 120# an amp hour. So you are considering 400 to 480# with lead acid. Twice that 400 amp-hours usable. Using what we have for 180 amp-hours at 12 V nominal which weigh 65# (the same general weight as similar Balqon), we wind up with 144# for 400 amp-hours or 180# if we want 400 amp-hours (4.8 kW-hr) of usable energy.
There remains confusion between the LiCo in Tesla/laptop batteries and LFP. They are completely different chemistries. And there are completely different chemistries among different Chinese made LFP cells.
Mexican Wanderer - Googled charging efficiency of lithium ion batteries and there at least 20 pages of sites on this subject (20 was enough).
An interesting slide presentation states that CEF is 97 to 99% http://elithion.com/pdf/ElithionBatteryPower10.pdfhttp://elithion.com/pdf/ElithionBatteryPower10.pdf
"...Lead acid batteries are less efficient at storing power than lithium ion batteries. Lithium batteries charge at nearly 100% efficiency, compared to the 85% efficiency of most lead acid batteries..." http://www.powertechsystems.eu/en/technics/lithium-ion-battery-advantages/
A moderator at Northern Arizona Wind and Solar Forum frothes at the keyboard when LFP is mentioned. He tosses people off the forum for discussing it. The battery moderator at Solar Panel Forums used to be this way but an Aussie has been working on him and he is becoming a believer.
LFP is only 18 years old and was invented at U. of Texas. It is improving every year (yttirium seems to be the new additive) and the costs are decreasing. Son Cary was at a symposium last fall and the consensus was the price will drop by 50% in a few years. The Chinese are selling all they can make in Asia, AfRica and South America. The USA is just a footnote to their solar and battery sales. Son sells only US made panels at this time.
Reed and Elaine
400 amp-hours at 12 V nominal is 4.8 kW-hrs and lead acid runs 100# to 120# an amp hour. So you are considering 400 to 480# with lead acid. Twice that 400 amp-hours usable. Using what we have for 180 amp-hours at 12 V nominal which weigh 65# (the same general weight as similar Balqon), we wind up with 144# for 400 amp-hours or 180# if we want 400 amp-hours (4.8 kW-hr) of usable energy.
There remains confusion between the LiCo in Tesla/laptop batteries and LFP. They are completely different chemistries. And there are completely different chemistries among different Chinese made LFP cells.
Mexican Wanderer - Googled charging efficiency of lithium ion batteries and there at least 20 pages of sites on this subject (20 was enough).
An interesting slide presentation states that CEF is 97 to 99% http://elithion.com/pdf/ElithionBatteryPower10.pdfhttp://elithion.com/pdf/ElithionBatteryPower10.pdf
"...Lead acid batteries are less efficient at storing power than lithium ion batteries. Lithium batteries charge at nearly 100% efficiency, compared to the 85% efficiency of most lead acid batteries..." http://www.powertechsystems.eu/en/technics/lithium-ion-battery-advantages/
A moderator at Northern Arizona Wind and Solar Forum frothes at the keyboard when LFP is mentioned. He tosses people off the forum for discussing it. The battery moderator at Solar Panel Forums used to be this way but an Aussie has been working on him and he is becoming a believer.
LFP is only 18 years old and was invented at U. of Texas. It is improving every year (yttirium seems to be the new additive) and the costs are decreasing. Son Cary was at a symposium last fall and the consensus was the price will drop by 50% in a few years. The Chinese are selling all they can make in Asia, AfRica and South America. The USA is just a footnote to their solar and battery sales. Son sells only US made panels at this time.
Reed and Elaine
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