Forum Discussion
MEXICOWANDERER
Jan 23, 2015Explorer
Hehehe,
Trojan, meaning James, is ASSSSSSSSSSSuming customers do not have access to a constant CURRENT charging device. Stepped voltage equalization is better than nothing. But for accuracy and kindness to the battery nothing on the face of the earth matches EFFICIENCY and EFFECTIVENESS 5% of amp hour capacity CONSTANT CURRENT from otherwise full-charge status toward 16.0 volts max.
Eleven hundred cycles huh? That's = to a full 50% discharge and full recharge every day of the week for 3.014 years. I'll leave it to the reader to judge.
What everyone seems to be missing here is the formula itself. 5% amperage is continued until such time as gravity in all cells reaches original density OR (The word "or" is significant. It does not mean -and- or -until- or anything else but alternative other)...
Sixteen volts is reached. Without question the lower the voltage reached to equalize the cells the better it is for the battery, the user and the power bill. The formula SPECIFICALLY does not state to continue to sixteen point zero zero volts DESPITE the gravity reading. Again, keep dipping the weak sister cell.
Constant current chargers that are large enough to imply 11 amps through 3 or 6 cells of golf car batteries DO NOT GROW ON TREES. They are hideously expensive. A large power supply can do it. So can the DC to DC converters and 12-volt light bulbs or that special 600 watt 12 booster with a CURRENT LIMITING cermet potentiometer.
"James" is not aware that such a thing is possible these days. You can call hum back and ask him if you wish.
I do try my best to offer shortcuts and better battery management on this forum. I did not spend 30-years as a hired-gun employed by battery manufacturers to play the part of peer with their engineering departments.
The FIVE PERCENT FORMULA minimizes antimony poisoning as well as cleans sulfation better than any other protocol I have ever tried. It is not my formula. I adopted it from BCI who in turn adopted it from BuShips manuals for lead acid battery management for submersible vessels during WW II.
APPLICATION engineers always try and put their signature mark on statements of fact. James did not give bad advice. He merely did not give the best advice. He thought it very unlikely anyone would have access to equipment that would mimic BCI desulfation protocol.
TOP CHARGING on the other hand IS MINE AND MINE ALONE formula for minimizing the need for formal equalization and it too recognizes the need to MINIMIZE antimony poisoning. Antimony poisoning is CUMULATIVE. Once those atoms migrate from the positive plates, the plates SOFTEN and decompose much easier and much faster. The atoms migrate to the negative Pb dioxide plate and foster intercell leakage as well as hinder the electrochemical effectiveness of the lead dioxide plate.
Remember, APPLICATION ENGINEERS are salesmen who have studied the manuals. Genuine engineers do not answer phones, and I can guarantee you if you telephone a battery company and ask for a DESIGN engineer:
a) 10,000 excuses, and endless phone shuttling but you will NOT talk to a genuine engineer. They hold the keys to the box with the family jewels.
b) If by a miracle bordering on the 9th wonder of the world, you do get to talk to a genuine engineer, his answers to your questions will be QUITE DIFFERENT from those of an educated salesman, (oops I mean applications engineer).
Because I am free from constraints of non-disclosure, have zero to gain when I am correct and my reputation to lose if I am wrong, it tends to to make me damned sure that my information is full and correct before I respond to a battery issue on this forum, within the confines of a solar voltaic home, million dollar Swan cruising sailboat or hundred foot yacht with helicopter pad.
The battery industry is incredibly complex, competitive and regulated. Over regulated. OSHA and EPA have made sure OEM walks a fine line. They are forced to use recycled impure lead. Customers, as "James" pointed out can be ignorant jerks. Too many people pontificate over lead acid batteries when they have no clue whatsoever of the entire picture. Trojan and James are forced to try and distill a complex subject into terms and actions the average Joe can understand and utilize. I'd last 4.6 minutes at that job. I'd be invited to leave at gunpoint.
Trojan, meaning James, is ASSSSSSSSSSSuming customers do not have access to a constant CURRENT charging device. Stepped voltage equalization is better than nothing. But for accuracy and kindness to the battery nothing on the face of the earth matches EFFICIENCY and EFFECTIVENESS 5% of amp hour capacity CONSTANT CURRENT from otherwise full-charge status toward 16.0 volts max.
Eleven hundred cycles huh? That's = to a full 50% discharge and full recharge every day of the week for 3.014 years. I'll leave it to the reader to judge.
What everyone seems to be missing here is the formula itself. 5% amperage is continued until such time as gravity in all cells reaches original density OR (The word "or" is significant. It does not mean -and- or -until- or anything else but alternative other)...
Sixteen volts is reached. Without question the lower the voltage reached to equalize the cells the better it is for the battery, the user and the power bill. The formula SPECIFICALLY does not state to continue to sixteen point zero zero volts DESPITE the gravity reading. Again, keep dipping the weak sister cell.
Constant current chargers that are large enough to imply 11 amps through 3 or 6 cells of golf car batteries DO NOT GROW ON TREES. They are hideously expensive. A large power supply can do it. So can the DC to DC converters and 12-volt light bulbs or that special 600 watt 12 booster with a CURRENT LIMITING cermet potentiometer.
"James" is not aware that such a thing is possible these days. You can call hum back and ask him if you wish.
I do try my best to offer shortcuts and better battery management on this forum. I did not spend 30-years as a hired-gun employed by battery manufacturers to play the part of peer with their engineering departments.
The FIVE PERCENT FORMULA minimizes antimony poisoning as well as cleans sulfation better than any other protocol I have ever tried. It is not my formula. I adopted it from BCI who in turn adopted it from BuShips manuals for lead acid battery management for submersible vessels during WW II.
APPLICATION engineers always try and put their signature mark on statements of fact. James did not give bad advice. He merely did not give the best advice. He thought it very unlikely anyone would have access to equipment that would mimic BCI desulfation protocol.
TOP CHARGING on the other hand IS MINE AND MINE ALONE formula for minimizing the need for formal equalization and it too recognizes the need to MINIMIZE antimony poisoning. Antimony poisoning is CUMULATIVE. Once those atoms migrate from the positive plates, the plates SOFTEN and decompose much easier and much faster. The atoms migrate to the negative Pb dioxide plate and foster intercell leakage as well as hinder the electrochemical effectiveness of the lead dioxide plate.
Remember, APPLICATION ENGINEERS are salesmen who have studied the manuals. Genuine engineers do not answer phones, and I can guarantee you if you telephone a battery company and ask for a DESIGN engineer:
a) 10,000 excuses, and endless phone shuttling but you will NOT talk to a genuine engineer. They hold the keys to the box with the family jewels.
b) If by a miracle bordering on the 9th wonder of the world, you do get to talk to a genuine engineer, his answers to your questions will be QUITE DIFFERENT from those of an educated salesman, (oops I mean applications engineer).
Because I am free from constraints of non-disclosure, have zero to gain when I am correct and my reputation to lose if I am wrong, it tends to to make me damned sure that my information is full and correct before I respond to a battery issue on this forum, within the confines of a solar voltaic home, million dollar Swan cruising sailboat or hundred foot yacht with helicopter pad.
The battery industry is incredibly complex, competitive and regulated. Over regulated. OSHA and EPA have made sure OEM walks a fine line. They are forced to use recycled impure lead. Customers, as "James" pointed out can be ignorant jerks. Too many people pontificate over lead acid batteries when they have no clue whatsoever of the entire picture. Trojan and James are forced to try and distill a complex subject into terms and actions the average Joe can understand and utilize. I'd last 4.6 minutes at that job. I'd be invited to leave at gunpoint.
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