This is a question and not a statement...Almost all of the lube oil contamination can be traced back to soot. And in theory more soot is formed when sulfur is present in the fuel. Of course incomplete combustion enters into the fray...But supposedly sulfur laden fuel destroys exhaust particulate filters by overwhelming them. Thus the mandate to use almost sulfur-free fuel.It would therefore be expected that ULSD would maintain crankcase lube oil significantly cleaner over a given amount of time.The question is directed at owners of diesel engines of similar type that have had extensive experience with both types of fuel. Low & NO.Does oil stay cleaner longer. Soot contamination is black. My Cummins with less than 200,000 miles on it, gets changed once a year or 12,000 miles whatever comes first. It has a Luberfiner C750L bypass filter like many big rigs.

Where do you get non-ULSD that is legal to be used in OTR diesels?

Locally?Next door to the taco stand. Read the panel to the left of my message post block :)

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:Locally?Next door to the taco stand. Read the panel to the left of my message post block :)If you had an older diesel, you could use some of that used taco grease for fuel:) The question is directed at owners of diesel engines of similar type that have had extensive experience with both types of fuel. Low & NO.While I don't have a ton of experience, I'm at other end of the stick but have done tons of reading. And have spent hours talking with a retired Cummins engineer. So maybe my post is more of a "book report" so take it for what it's worth. ULSD is not user friendly to mine at all. In my reading and many phone calls to oil analysis places questioning (weather to add two stroke oil or not) several have said that if they owned a newer (anti?) pollution machine, they would add a "spinner" or (search word) "spinner centrifuge oil filter". Removes soot down to 2 micron level. Which at that level, some detergent is also trapped. If you start researching them...first step is to find out how much oil pressure your spec's says you are supposed to have. If you don't have enough oil pressure to cycle oil into and out of spinner, useless to have one. YouTube has some vid's also. The retired engineer backs up his maintenance 10-15 percent. He also said most fuel pumped to the public in the US is at the 20 micron level. He didn't think overall additional fuel filtration beyond OEM was necessary, but he has an onboard fuel pressure gauge and replaces fuel filters when he sees a bit of restriction or 10 percent less mileage/time than what spec calls for. Having said all that I thought one of the reasons for the new oil spec "CK" was supposed to help you guys that carry around extra 500 pounds of (anti) pollution devices? Wonder if you can buy carbon offsets for carrying around that extra weight?:)" API introduces two new diesel engine oil standards, API Service Categories CK-4 and FA-4."http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/latest-oil-categories

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:The question is directed at owners of diesel engines of similar type that have had extensive experience with both types of fuel. Low & NO.Does oil stay cleaner longer. Soot contamination is black. We have a small fleet of mostly specialty diesel powered vehicles. Most of them are pre-1999 engines, a few are 1980’s engines. There has been absolutely zero visually noticeable, or measurable in the 4X / year oil samples, difference between ‘old’ diesel, LSD & ULSD. Not that it’s by any means conclusive, but some of our engines run for months at a time (off road, on remote sites) on off-road diesel, furnace oil, kerosene and / or Jet A. Again, no difference in oil sample results. Gosh, you don’t think that just like with ‘corn liquor’ the general population is being a little misled on this do you? ;-p

The oil in my ULSD Sprinter gets black pretty darn fast after an oil change. Way faster than with a gasoline engine.

ULSD vs Regular Diesel / Have You Noticed? | Good Sam Community

19 Replies

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 23, 2017
I just LOVE Political Accounting 101

It's being old and still having someone to have a deep pocket beside you to dip into when a fit of stupid overpowers you...
JaxDad
Explorer III
Oct 23, 2017
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Spending three thousand dollars on engine repairs to save five hundred dollars in fuel costs sound like a People's Republic of California, trick.

Oh no mi amigo. Single digit IQ level thinking is not restricted to just one country’s beauracracy, and technically speaking, the $3k is a capital expenditure, the $500 is operating expense, so it IS a savings!
BMCM
Explorer
Oct 22, 2017
Hey Mex,
You take Moonbeam, you gotta keep him!
rw
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 22, 2017
Spending three thousand dollars on engine repairs to save five hundred dollars in fuel costs sound like a People's Republic of California, trick.

I am throwing a hissy fit against California when the government was STUPID enough to ban transformer battery chargers as being "Energy Inefficient" So batteries get destroyed by double-digit IQ Smart Chargers and ELIMINATING THE CHOICE for consumers is SMART? I'd like to take governor MOONBEAM on a tour of a battery manufacturing plant and show him the authentic definition of ENERGY CONSUMPTION.
JaxDad
Explorer III
Oct 22, 2017
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I'd try using taco grease but I wouldn't care much for going a flatulent 200 mph.

You’re not far off the mark there.

The public electric commission in Toronto tried experimenting with biodiesel a few years back, before it was commercially available, the nature of the job means the trucks have to idle for many hours a day to provide PTO power for the hydraulics. It was ‘food industry sourced‘ biodiesel, aka used deep fryer oil, blended 10% bio, 90% dino.

After a 6 month trial period the verdict was in, it was going to cost them more in health insurance benefits than they’d save in fuel costs.

It seems the ‘deep fryer oil’ in the fuel meant the exhaust smelled like a fast food restaurant and the crews on those trucks were packing on the pounds because the trucks exhaust smelled like french fries and they had to stand next to it all day long so they snacked continuously because of it.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 22, 2017
I'd try using taco grease but I wouldn't care much for going a flatulent 200 mph.
brulaz
Explorer
Oct 21, 2017
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Not being a student of government mandates for emission control perhaps I misunderstood the hierarchy of the importance of severe control of emissions. It read repeatedly for years the primary purpose of federal regulations is to reduce particulates in the exhaust. This has changed?

And Mother Earth News grade bio-diesel makes things worse? Has common sense fled in panic, the collective wisdom of Americans? Forgive me Gotta go. I'm late for my KUMBAYAH lesson.

Well, back in the day, pure diesels definitely had a particulate problem, more so than gas engines. You know, "rolling coal"?

But if you take care of that, there's still NOx issues, which is what all the newer urea addition technology is for. Gas engines can get away with catalytic converters alone, but not diesels.

Biodiesel can actually be good for lubricity (which low-sulfur fuel took away), and lubricity can be good for fuel pumps. Some of the earlier Bosch CP4 pumps would blow apart cause of poor fuel lubricity. However earlier engines had gasket/seal problems with high levels of biodiesel. But now all the trucks are certified for B20.

The other issue with biodiesel, with B20 in articular, is the possibility of gelling in cold weather. We don't see much B20 up here in Ontario. I'd certainly never use it in the winter.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 21, 2017
Not being a student of government mandates for emission control perhaps I misunderstood the hierarchy of the importance of severe control of emissions. It read repeatedly for years the primary purpose of federal regulations is to reduce particulates in the exhaust. This has changed?

And Mother Earth News grade bio-diesel makes things worse? Has common sense fled in panic, the collective wisdom of Americans? Forgive me Gotta go. I'm late for my KUMBAYAH lesson.
Kayteg1
Explorer II
Oct 21, 2017
I have 2 Mercedes diesels DPF equipped with 170 and 180 thousands miles.
No problem with DPF and looks like they are original.
Don't think I would like to try them on Mexican diesel.
Common knowledge is that clean diesels like hot weather and long drives for regeneration. My Ford 6.7 has DPF as well, but the truck is driven on long distance all the time.
But if you drive short distance in cold weather, new diesel might give you some headaches.
As well as fact that some states sell diesel with 20% of bio, what creates additional problems
brulaz
Explorer
Oct 21, 2017
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Is it an issue of sulfur laden soot damaging the particulate filter or regeneration system?

Always thought it was more for NOx reduction.

Wikipedia and it's footnotes has some info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel

"ULSD Fact Sheet" wrote:
EPA, the California Air Resources Board, engine manufacturers and others have completed tests and demonstration programs showing that using the advanced emissions control devices enabled by the use of ULSD fuel reduces emissions of hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen (precursors of ozone), as well as particulate matter to near-zero levels.

Europe started ULSD in 1999, Canada and US by 2006.

EDIT: and by the way, in terms of soot, the exhaust tip on my Cummins is perfectly clean after 35K kms, whereas the exhaust tip on my previous F150 Ecoboost was quickly sooted. Apparently DI turbo gasoline engines are a major source of fine particulates.