Forum Discussion

CA_Traveler's avatar
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Jan 23, 2016

Understanding Solar Irradiance for Solar Panels

In another thread it was suggested that you could use the University of Arizona at Tucson solar data to determine the maximum expected solar panel output at that location. Using that data from 1/20/16 the expected maximum output would be 675/1000 or 67.5 percent at 1:00. That seemed reasonable to me at the time. Click here.

The data at this site is real world data meaning that the actual irradiance is measured and reflects clouds etc. 1/20/16 is basically a cloud free day at that location.

But further checking of the site for the summer time showed that data from 6/21/15 was not what I expected. Click here.

This would seem to suggest that a flat panel would produce more power than a tracking panel at 1:00 on 6/21/15 and this was generally true of other summer time days. What does this data mean and can it be used from this site and others as a reference for solar panels? The definitions of the data suggest this:
Direct Normal Irradiance is the amount of solar radiation received per unit area by a surface that is always held perpendicular (or normal) to the rays that come in a straight line from the direction of the sun at its current position in the sky. Typically, you can maximize the amount of irradiance annually received by a surface by keeping it normal to incoming radiation. This quantity is of particular interest to concentrating solar thermal installations and installations that track the position of the sun.

Global Horizontal Irradiance (GHI) is the total amount of shortwave radiation received from above by a surface horizontal to the ground. This value is of particular interest to photovoltaic installations and includes both Direct Normal Irradiance (DNI) and Diffuse Horizontal Irradiance (DIF). is the total amount of shortwave radiation received from above by a surface horizontal to the ground.

10 Replies

  • ya need DNI & diffuse horizontal to calculate GHI (and the cosine of the sun's ever changing zenith)

    No need to calculate what they already measure directly
  • Thanks for all of the information. Apparently the Tucson collector used for DNI isn't applicable for detecting solar panel light. Yesterdays data shows that as the DNI crashed relative to the horizontal data in the heavy clouds.
  • Almot's avatar
    Almot
    Explorer III
    Yes, PVWatts don't consider a standalone controller loss. I noticed some changes from several months ago, don't remember what their defaults were back then. Anyway, if you discount 10% loss of their inverter and add 5% of your controller, you're down to 1.05 DC/AC conversion. They include "most"of other system losses, like panel soiling and wires. They also include temperature effect.

    Nice calculator overall. I used it to estimate my system before building it, and it didn't let me down, solar harvest is what I expected to be.

  • They assume 1.1 DC/AC losses or 90% inverter efficiency, not 96%.
    They also assume 100% controller efficiency.
    PVWatts got a facelift last month, and some of the defaults changed. It's targeted strictly for grid-tie systems now, with no place provided for charge controller losses. An alternative to bundling the CC with inverter efficiency is to add it to the "system losses" line.
  • Use GHI for flat panel for instantaneous estimation
    don't forget that 700 kwh/mm raises the panel's temp 25C above ambient
  • Almot's avatar
    Almot
    Explorer III
    road-runner wrote:
    Try this calculator http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

    At my location it is pretty much dead on after 3 years of actual data. Being meant for grid tie systems, the default inverter efficiency is set to 96%. For a battery system I'd suggest changing that to 85% to account for charge controller and battery losses.

    Yes, it is accurate, I've been using it many times.

    They assume 1.1 DC/AC losses or 90% inverter efficiency, not 96%.
    They also assume 100% controller efficiency.
    Controller efficiency is typically 95% or better (at least, in MPPT).
    Hence, harvested DC energy after controller and before the battery would be 1.05 times more than in AC column. I would just leave it as is and assume DC=AC.

    I would not consider battery losses here. Some old battery will have ridiculous losses, and even a new flooded battery never stops simmering and heating your space, unlike AGM that simply stops accepting charge.
  • Try this calculator http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

    At my location it is pretty much dead on after 3 years of actual data. Being meant for grid tie systems, the default inverter efficiency is set to 96%. For a battery system I'd suggest changing that to 85% to account for charge controller and battery losses.
  • I understand DNI to be a small window about the sun, beam, 'straight line' from the sun.

    see page 12 of chp1 manual
    http://www.kippzonen.com/Product/18/CHP1-Pyrheliometer#.VqPrKZorI1g
    The beam of light that reaches the detector is limited by the field and aperture stop.

About Technical Issues

Having RV issues? Connect with others who have been in your shoes.24,294 PostsLatest Activity: Aug 01, 2025