Getting a tad nippy out, living here in the TT.Supposed to get down to minus 32C tonight. (about -25.6F)Cooking dinner just now, oven on baking some salmon, furnace trying to keep this thing warm and 2 burners on the stove going. I noticed that although one burner was on high, the flame was only maybe 30% of what it should be. Furnace shut off and the flame jumped up to high.Don't think the bottle is near empty yet, I've only had it in use for a day and a half. I'm thinking maybe it is too cold for the propane to boil off and flow. Anybody know what temperature that propane stops flowing without warming the bottles?I should have listened to pianotuna and bought an electric blanket for the tanks. Meant to, but never got around to it - too busy trying to work outside in this cool weather.

Thats what I get for going to Calgary to work at this time of year! Yuk yuk!Coulda got a motel, but wheres the fun and challenge in that?

Don't forget, as propane (or LPG) evaporates to run your furnace/cooktop/etc., it cools the liquid in the tank. So while it might flow just fine at -39 under a light load, if you try to run a lot of stuff, it might stop being useful at much higher ambient temperatures. When it gets below -30, you might need a 'lectric blanket out there around the tank. And the problem would be much worse the smaller your tank is. Feeding all those appliances off a thousand gallon residential tank would work much better than off a 20 pound RV tank.

Propane boils at about -50C. However, vapor pressure drops as temperature drops. So... what happens is the max BTU/hr you can draw drops with temperature and with the size of tank, and how much is left in the tank.What your experiencing is probably a combination of all three. low temp, bottle to small capacity, bottle partially filled. I did a web search a while ago, and my memory may be bad but what I recalled was that for a 100lb tank, with 20lbs left, at 0F BTU/hr capacity was around 30KBTU/hr. you've got a smaller tank and lower temps!!!Add to that the oven, furnace, stove..... Ug... hope the WH doesn't decide to turn on!!time to put the tanks to bed with a electric blanket!!BTW my folks, further south than you hit -30F last night and they think it will be colder tonight. Reminds me of Xmas weather in the 60's and 70's with cold and snow!!

"Why do the sides of my propane tank freeze up?" "As you use the vapor propane (that resides in the top of the tank), the liquid (in the bottom of the tank) begins to release replacement vapors. The liquid propane inside your tank must absorb warmth from the steel walls of your tank in order to convert the liquid to a vapor. If your vapor withdrawal rate is larger than the liquid conversion rate, the steel will begin to freeze and ice up as the liquid propane is demanding more and more warmth."

What temperature are you at? Yep that is cold enough, just your luck.There is a propane pressure temperature chart, it is R-290. Yes a refrigerant.Here is a place to find it's pressure at various temperatures.http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.htmlSo it looks like -44 and the pressure will be 0 PSI. However recall that you will be boiling the propane inside a tank, so if it is -20 outside, then the tank can reach -44, depending on the speed that you are using the propane from the tank. The slower that you are going to consume propane, the closer you can get to -44 and still have it boil faster than the tank gets cold. If you can rotate tanks, and keep one inside for a while, you will be able to increase it's pressure, and thus have one ready to take outside and hook it up around midnight. (yes thanks for knowing that). If you are collecting a lot of ice on the tank, the ice will help insulate the tank from the heat outside, and make the pressure even lower. Putting the tank into a warm sink full of water is what I have to do when I empty a R-22 freon tank as a vapor into a air conditioner. It will also increase the tank pressure in your case. You would need a bucket slightly larger in diameter than the 30# tank, and then fill it with some hot water, let it soak a while (inside the RV where it will not freeze or lose to much more heat to the outside.)Fred.

What temperature does propane stop flowing? | Good Sam Community

Grit_dog
Navigator
Jan 16, 2024
Since you must be plugged in at, wherever you can “camp” in Calgary in the winter, are you limited on power, or is there some other aversion to some electric heat? Would seem to be an easier and likely cheaper short term solution since the LP furnace probably chews through the LP quickly anyways.
Another option, have spare tanks stored inside to rotate into the mix and keep em on the full side to help with boiling a greater volume.
or use some of your power to heat the tanks. Literally a small magnetic block heater on the tank you’re using and an old blanket around it will make the problem disappear.
idk depends how long you need the solution for.
good luck and stay warm!
- W8-4-me
  Explorer
  Jan 18, 2024
  Taken from a web site.
  -44 degrees Fahrenheit
  A propane tank's cold temperature limit is -44 degrees Fahrenheit — at that point, propane turns from a gas to a liquid. Propane can only heat your home when it's in a gaseous state, not when it's a liquid.
naturist
Nomad
Jan 14, 2024
Don't forget, as propane (or LPG) evaporates to run your furnace/cooktop/etc., it cools the liquid in the tank. So while it might flow just fine at -39 under a light load, if you try to run a lot of stuff, it might stop being useful at much higher ambient temperatures. When it gets below -30, you might need a 'lectric blanket out there around the tank. And the problem would be much worse the smaller your tank is. Feeding all those appliances off a thousand gallon residential tank would work much better than off a 20 pound RV tank.
dandysmack
Explorer
Jan 14, 2024
I remember our LP stopped flowing at 54643
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Dec 09, 2013
down home wrote:
probably not the case here but another thing to be watched.
Some suppliers not only put propane int their tanks but butane and other heavy and light ends. Works ok in warm weather but you are shortchanged since they don''t have the same energy. When colder the "propane" may not flow too well or at all.
Sometimes it pays to ask and make sure. Others the people filling the tank don't know.

bigger issue is that butane has a much higher boiling point and lower vapor pressure. If you can't get it to boil then no gas.

There is a difference between "propane" and LPG "liquified petroleum gas". propane is propane only. LPG can be either pure propane or a mix of propane, butane etc.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Dec 09, 2013
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
LPG needs an appropriately large SURFACE AREA to vaporize liquid into gas. I installed a large hydronic heating system in a repair garage in the Sierra Nevada Mountains many years ago. A one million BTU boiler. At -25C it took four 500 gallon tanks set to offer enough surface area to gasify fuel for the boiler.

A vertical tank offers a poor relationship of surface area to gas storage. But nothing can be done about it except heat the tank. I've seen folks use an infrared LPG heater placed a meter distant from a big tank in an emergency.

yes. In fact most propane suppliers have graphs that will show the max BTU/hr that can be drawn from a tank at a given min ambient temperature when the tanks is at a low level, say 10% off initial capacity.

They use those graphs to determine the minimum size tank to supply an application taking into account the maximum draw. And why the bigger tanks are horizontal cylinders. But even with a horizontal cylinder, as you get near empty, the surface area is going down as well as you get near the bottom of the tank.

IIRC while a 7.5 gallon vertical tank is common for RV applications, it is actually undersized for a typical furnace draw below about 40F. And it gets worse when the furnace and HWH turn on.

I know my 7.5 gallon tank will switch over with about 1.5 gallons left if the HWH and furance come on in the morning with temps in the low 40's. I just wait till late in the morning and switch back to get the last gallon or so out of the tank.
down_home
Explorer II
Dec 09, 2013
probably not the case here but another thing to be watched.
Some suppliers not only put propane int their tanks but butane and other heavy and light ends. Works ok in warm weather but you are shortchanged since they don''t have the same energy. When colder the "propane" may not flow too well or at all.
Sometimes it pays to ask and make sure. Others the people filling the tank don't know.
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Dec 09, 2013
LPG needs an appropriately large SURFACE AREA to vaporize liquid into gas. I installed a large hydronic heating system in a repair garage in the Sierra Nevada Mountains many years ago. A one million BTU boiler. At -25C it took four 500 gallon tanks set to offer enough surface area to gasify fuel for the boiler.

A vertical tank offers a poor relationship of surface area to gas storage. But nothing can be done about it except heat the tank. I've seen folks use an infrared LPG heater placed a meter distant from a big tank in an emergency.
gmctoyman
Explorer
Dec 08, 2013
More than you wanted to know.
http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/bulletins/d4500147t012.pdf

Much easier.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10186.0
wa8yxm
Explorer III
Dec 08, 2013
I have heard a few claims of temp for the vapor point of propane.

I like to research and it's running in another tab now. the round figure is -40 your choice of C or F but it turns out -44F (About -42 C) is right.

here is the link

http://www.propane101.com/aboutpropane.htm
BobsYourUncle
Nomad
Dec 08, 2013
last night was the lowest temperature for the next little while.
As soon as it got to about -25C (-13F) it worked fine again.

But I will follow Don's suggestion and get a heating pad of some kind to keep in here for future cold weather.

I was a bit concerned when the furnace couldn't keep up and the temp was dropping inside here. I can stay warm no problem but it's my plumbing freezing that concerns me.

Moving on to Medicine Hat tomorrow or Monday for the next part of my adventure!!