Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy. Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?

thealexdexter wrote:Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy. Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?Nope. Just make sure its a floating nuetral inverter. Ground the case to frame of trailer as specified in the instructions.I ran an outdoor ext cord from pass through where inverter is to under the RV to a 30 amp TT outlet.I just plug the camper to this when boondocking..You need to find the charging circuit breaker and flip it off when you do this.. Some are isolated and on their own breakers, and some are tied to other things in RV.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5cpclHjqA

Make sure you can kill the battery charger and any other high draw items and it's a simple way to do it.

400 watts... to power WHAT?small amount of power ... I have a 400 watt inverter.. for 32 inch TV and satellite receiver.I use a 15a power cord.. and unplug power strip.. from wall outlet., into power cord to inverter...I have my inverter next to shore power supply.. wired to 12 volt line from battery.. and next to main fuse box of trailer.

This is what I did with my OFF-ROAD Camper.I have a duty always 'ON' 600WATT PSW Power Inverter just inside my cabinet area off of the 5X8 front deck. I use the 120VAC OUTPUT of this Power Inverter to run a couple of multi-head drop cords inside my trailer with one going to the home entertainment area and the other one going to a cabinet top close to where we sleep. I also have a connection going to an OUTSIDE w/lid 120VAC Receptacle like shown here. This is next to the Shore Power Connection for the trailer wf-8900 series Power Distribution Panel... I have another 1500WATT PSW Power invert I can use as well but it is too big a drain for my battery back and is not used very much... This Power Inverter also creates a whole bunch of Radio Noise which i don't like to mess with...Roy's imageWhen I want to feed my WF-8900 series 120VAC Power Distribution panel I use a short jumper cable as shown in the diagram. This is my poor mans transfer switch... I usually have all the 120VAC breakers 'OFF' except for the 120VAC inside/outside receptacles when doing this.My over-all floor plan shows some of this as well... This idea here is to power up all of my HAM RADIO items for Emergency Comms I am associated with when camping off-gridRoy's imageI also have a 300WATT MSW Power Inverter associated with my truck that I use alot to power up outside lights etc... This doesn't do well with any of my electronics - only good for lights and will power up my bean coffee grinder sometimes but that starts getting hot to if I use it too long. I need to change this power inverter out for a PSW type...I think all of this can give you an idea of what I am doing here...Roy Ken

I used a transfer switch and wired mine onto the two branch circuits.Put my converter on a separate breaker. Still need to set the fridge to propane only. Push the remote power switch and instant power.Yes you can plug the main cord direct.

Wire output of 400w invertor to shore plug on outside smart?

31 Replies

MDKMDK
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
lawrosa wrote:
My crude drawing.. I can only plug into the pedestal, of the TT/30 amp plug I mounted under RV to inverter. I can never connect two power sources...

That's a typo that I lifted the ground wire in the TT 30 amp... I was going to for safety but not needed because the TT have a floating neutral and is not tied to ground...

And a good inverter to get with open nuetral are these kriegers. No GFI. Cheap and a 3 year warranty.

Keep it close to the batts. No reason to use more then the 1100 watt unit. Becuse if you drew close to 1000 watts for a appliance that would be 90 amps..

Run 2 gauge or better and try to keep it close, like 7 ft or less from batts.

http://www.kriegermfg.com/products/power-inverters/

89 bucks. Cant beat it...

I used their fuse but ran my own 2 gauge wire... ( I think the wire they supply is aluminum... not sure)

https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Installation-included-Automotive-according/dp/B00T564EIY

Good drawing of the situation that started the thread. I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
That's what I wanted to do.
The GFCi to GFCI thing was mentioned in a prior comment addressed to me with red text. I said I wasn't sure how that would work, but I was thinking Drew's explanation of either one or the other tripping, was the most likely result.
MDKMDK
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
Yes, the coach's AC outlet distribution feed is what I would like to feed (when the shore power cord is unplugged from everything) from the PSW inverter, when camping off grid. I thought that was located somewhere in the converter charger area, perhaps?
Although I don't have the manuals on the inverter yet, because the unit is still being built, I thought most newer PSW inverters had circuitry in the output AC end to prevent AC current from another source flowing back into the inverter? Like diodes in a battery separator? One directional current flow from the inverter AC out? Is this not true? I also thought some of them have the equivalent of an automatic transfer switch built into the AC output circuitry for just that purpose? To sense when they aren't the only source of AC current and shut themselves off.
I believe I can manually shut off the inverter prior to plugging the 30A power cable into shore or the generator.
I understand that it's hard to diagnose and troubleshoot stuff on a chat forum, so fire away, and I'll try to evaluate and understand what you're telling me.
lawrosa
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
My crude drawing.. I can only plug into the pedestal, of the TT/30 amp plug I mounted under RV to inverter. I can never connect two power sources...

That's a typo that I lifted the ground wire in the TT 30 amp... I was going to for safety but not needed because the TT have a floating neutral and is not tied to ground...

And a good inverter to get with open nuetral are these kriegers. No GFI. Cheap and a 3 year warranty.

Keep it close to the batts. No reason to use more then the 1100 watt unit. Becuse if you drew close to 1000 watts for a appliance that would be 90 amps..

Run 2 gauge or better and try to keep it close, like 7 ft or less from batts.

http://www.kriegermfg.com/products/power-inverters/

89 bucks. Cant beat it...

I used their fuse but ran my own 2 gauge wire... ( I think the wire they supply is aluminum... not sure)

https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Installation-included-Automotive-according/dp/B00T564EIY
DrewE
Explorer II
Mar 19, 2018
MDKMDK wrote:

That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.

Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?

The converter/charger does not have an "AC coach outlet rail" as such.

I think you're talking about connecting a pigtail directly to the AC distribution panel, which is separate from the converter (but often mounted in the same chassis). That is not an acceptable way of wiring things up: it leaves the possibility of having two power sources connected together simultaneously, which is not okay. It also means that one of the plugs (either the shore power cord plug or the inverter power output plug) is live when it's unplugged under some situations, and having a live male plug is also not acceptable.

You must have some sort of a transfer switching arrangement whenever two different AC power sources feed the same circuit(s), which may be something as simple as unplugging a cord from one receptacle and plugging it into another, or something somewhat more complex like a suitable manual switch or an automatic transfer switch. You cannot simply connect them in parallel. Besides being unsafe, you stand a reasonable chance of destroying your inverter the first time you plug in to shore power or use the generator.

Plugging the shore power cord into the inverter, rather than a shore power connection or the generator output socket, is safe and acceptable. You can't plug it into more than one thing at once.

Edit: I wanted to add that there's no inherent problem with having a GFCI plugged into or connected to another GFCI. Which one trips first in the event of a ground fault is, of course, somewhat up to guesswork, but assuming there are no faults in the system it will work just fine. Indeed, this is done pretty frequently, such as when plugging a modern hair dryer (with a GFCI built into the plug) into a modern bathroom outlet (which is GFCI protected per the NEC).

I'm not sure exactly where the rather persistent belief that this doesn't work came from.
MDKMDK
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
lawrosa wrote:
MDKMDK wrote:
SoundGuy wrote:

All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. :M That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.

That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.

You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol

Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?

I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.

Consult an electrician if your unsure

Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.

One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...

Thanks Mike. Good input and food for thought. Further research is required, no? Particularly the GFCI to GFCI current routing. I hadn't thought of that one, and don't know the details yet. Worth investigating. The last comment about disabling the converter/charger should be moot, because my wiring the coach outlets off the AC feeder rail won't go near the main shore power cable. That's what I'mm trying to avoid, like SoundGuy did. :C
thealexdexter
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
I would never have two Ac at same time. This is off grid only situation. Only scenario I can see is if I accidentally start generator with inverter plugged into shore plug.

Turning fridge to gas is simple. I will need to look into the converter off switch. It’s a new arctic fox camper. They tend to do things smart not cheap so I guess it will be pretty easy to do.

I only want to power a tv and DVD player. Looking for a solution to not change camper wiring. Maybe it’s just easier to run two wires down to the battery ciompartment and plug the tv into the investor directly. Just easier it it’s whole camper then I can charge a flashlight or cellphone or make frozen margaritas. Jk. I know it won’t run the blender.
lawrosa
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
MDKMDK wrote:
SoundGuy wrote:

All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. :M That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.

That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.

You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol

Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?

I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.

Consult an electrician if your unsure

Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.

One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...
MDKMDK
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
SoundGuy wrote:

All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. :M That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.

That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.

Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
Ron3rd
Explorer III
Mar 19, 2018
thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?

Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.

Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?

That's how I wired my TT. I use a 300 watt inverter to power TVs only. I turn off all breakers except the one for the 120 v outlets

Works fine
SoundGuy
Explorer
Mar 19, 2018
thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?

SoundGuy wrote:
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter.

MDKMDK wrote:
Theoretically, how could/would you connect the output from one of the 2 GFCI outlets of a built in inverter (accessible from one of the exterior storage compartments in the motorhome) to the AC power feed to the rest of the coach's AC receptacles?

There's nothing "theoretical" about it, some prefer this method rather than wire in dedicated receptacles (as I have) or wire in the inverter through a transfer switch. Just plug the rig's main service cable into one of the inverter outputs and the entire rig will be powered by it, within the limits of the inverter and battery bank powering it. Doing just that however creates an electrical loop between the rig's converter and the inverter so the simple solution is to disable the converter by switching it off. As mentioned you also want to force the fridge to the gas mode, or turn off it's 120 ac electrical breaker, so it can't auto switch to the 120 vac mode when the inverter is turned on. If you have a water heater with a 120 vac electric heating option you also want to make sure it's turned off and can only run on the gas mode. One poster mentioned turning off all the breakers for anything in the rig that can't or shouldn't be run off the inverter, a microwave or A/C being examples, but they won't run anyway unless someone intentionally turns them on. Obviously if you choose this method of powering your rig with an inverter it automatically eliminates any chances of powering the rig from two sources at the same time as the main service cable can only be plugged into one source at a time anyway. All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. :M That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.

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Wire output of 400w invertor to shore plug on outside smart?

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