2018 Ram 2500
Trying to figure out the towing capacity for 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 hemi with 3.73 axle short bed crew cab. We are looking into buying a 14000 lb fifth wheel. Has anyone pull this heavy of a fifth wheel w...
Forum Discussion
You have not said where/what type of towing you’ll be doing. That matters. It’s a completely different ballgame if you’re towing it to the lake in Iowa….from Iowa vs loading up on the east coast and pulling thru the hills back east and the Rockies out west. Chassis is stout enough for either or both. The drivetrain is lacking for more than the hypothetical flatland short distance occasional trips.
The engine will handle it, barely, in “Iowa”. In Colorado, you’ll want to turn around by a he time you get to Floyd Hill and trade it in on a diesel.
The weak link is the crappy 66rfe trans. You got the last year of the HD gasser with a sub par transmission on all accounts.
I have a 2016 diesel with the 68rfe that I kinda fell into, would never have bought one otherwise or for full price. 14k would make me cringe and I’d baby it up every grade and it’s rated higher than the 66.
In this case ignorance isn’t bliss. You just don’t have the right drivetrain to tow that big and heavy
Some will tell you the 2500 is overloaded. It isn’t. But the drivetrain is under powered and undersized for the job. Considerably.
This coming from a Ram/Dodge/Mopar guy.
You sir are worse than dangerous.
In at least 48 states it is illegal to surpass any rating on your vehicle. Some states it is a civil fine, while others it is a misdemeanor.
The tow rating is usually the least important rating. The most important ratings are:
1. Cargo capacity
2. Gross Combined Vehicle Rating (GCVR), which includes the towed vehicle.
3. Axel ratings
4. Hitch rating
The GCVR and axel ratings are printed on tags. For the tow vehicle they are in the drivers side door jam. Sometimes they include the Cargo capacity, other times you must calculate it using the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating minus the vehicle curb weight. You can not go online to find these vehicles (except maybe a VIN search at the manufacturers website). Most RV trailers have their tags either near the pin box, the hitch receiver, or sometimes on the drivers side front of the trailer.
There is only one way to get the ratings changed, you must pay to get a new certification, which is not cheap.
Adding air bags, better shocks, better springs and other improvements may make the vehicle handle better, but they do not officially change the vehicle's official rating.
The fines for exceeding the weight can be relatively low (about $200) to several thousand dollars. If it is a misdemeanor you can face jail time (up to a year), community service, etc.
Things really change if you are involved in an accident. You could be found automatically "at fault". Some states may even charge you with manslaughter if someone dies. You may be responsible for injuries and property damages. Some insurance companies will deny claims if you are found "at fault" for an accident due to an overloaded vehicle.
OMG, each of your posts gets funnier. Tell me what’s different about 3 and 4 above, in reality, on any srw HD truck. Here’s a clue. It’s not much, actually quite insignificant when the SAME CHASSIS is used.
Slackware - it would be really easy for you to settle this issue definitively. All you have to do is provide a link to any one of those 48 states motor vehicle regulations (not commercial vehicle regs) that states you can’t exceed a rating on your vehicle such as GVWR, GCVWR, payload rating, etc. (bridge law not withstanding). I’ve been on this forum for about 20 years and in that time nobody has ever been able to furnish such a link. That leads people like me to believe you’re mistaken, misinterpreting, or misinformed; and in turn, misleading.
Hasn’t been a good weight cop on here in a while.
Slackware,
Grit and I live in one of them states where manufactures ratings are not something we follow. My 1500 is registered at 8000 lbs, as is my sons GM 1500, and other sons Toyota Tundra . None of these have an 8000 lb manufacture rating. ALL weigh about 5000-5400 lbs empty. LEGAL registration is tare x 1.5 to next higher ton! or close to it any how. 5400 x 1.5 is 8100. Hence all three of us pay for, and are legal to 8000 lbs.
I can legally go to 500 lbs per inch width of tire to 20K per axel. WIth my 11" tires, I get 5500 per corner, 11000 per axel total of 22000 gvw.
Now that I have said the above, the enforcement officers that enforce weightlaws, are enforcing the engineers max point load for the road bed! NOTHING to do with manufactures warranty weight ratings! I've been pulled over at 150% of Navistars rating for my dump truck. I have yet to get an over-weight ticket! Because I am under the FEDERAL BRIDGE LAWS, which is the point load rating I mention above. IF ANY state does not allow you to drive at up to or equal to these laws, there federal funding for roads can and will be withheld!
Your point of 48 states follows the manufactures rating is completely incorrect. If I go to Wa states weight laws, RCW 45 and 46 if you want to know where to look! It is very clear you get maximum weight per axel tire etc to no effect this state from collecting federal road taxes per the Federal Bridge Law. Bridge by the way, means spreading the load on ANY type road bed so damage is not occurring to that roadbed, be it on terra firma, soft terrain, or a bridge! There is an Illinois retired CVEO that posts on here that will tell you, you don't know the weight laws. Illinois does not follow manufactures ratings, Montana does not follow manufactures ratings. Pickups get a choice of 7500 or 15000 max legal gvw for the vehicle.
Where you will get in major trouble, is braking if you go down the road at max weight law specs. You will not stop within the field test spec. SO, you get a failed braking ticket, you will have to have your rig towed or put on a trailer, flatbed or equal to a place that can fix your brakes to stop said load. You can't legally drive your rig down the road, until inspected at least in Wa st, by the WSP! Showing your brakes are good for the load. This vs an overweight ticket is a moving violation, Overweight is a non-moving violation, it is as bad on your driving record as a parking ticket! no record on driving, not given to insurance. That failed braking system, bend over!
GCWR and trailer tow rating means nothing to a CVEO! Only the amount of gvw on the axles. Along with you can move at minimum speed laws on that road. Interstates its 40 mph here. MIchigan it is 45. Altho most look the other way at least here if you have no other road to use, like over a mountain pass, you are in the right lane, flashers on etc. They don't bother you. If you're in the left lane doing 25 mph, they will move you over to the right lane! possibly give you a ticket for impeding traffic etc.
As far as the OP goes, frankly, he will NEVER be over an enforced weight limit, unless he has not bought, paid enough tax for driving down the road at the weight he is. Depending upon how far over his paid for registration, red tagged until enough gvw is paid for, 10 day up the registration by 2000 lbs as I have had happen once. I was under all of the federal enforced limits. Ask yourself, is he like me going to be over 22000 lbs on his two axles? no way! RV folks are pretty conservative to staying at or under manufactures ratings. As such, Commercial/Weight enforcement officers will not be too worried about you. No money to be made pulling you over to weight you etc.
I would not pull a 14K trailer for very far with the gas motor in the Ram. It will do it legally! I can go into from experience pulling with lower powered motors, with poor tranny gear and axle ratio's. Ie stalling out on steeper grades etc. NOT FUN!
MY more than 02 on this subject matter!
MartyIn Washington State you are unlikely to be pulled over and forced to be weighed, but it is possible.
Terms such as GVWR are defined by federal law. A class 2 truck weighs between 6,001 pounds and 10,000 pounds (which is why RAM derates their 2500's to 10,000 pounds). Washington's vehicle laws regarding vehicle weight are about commercial vehicles.
Washington does have a law against driving a vehicle in an unsafe condition. Which is determined, in this case by the vehicle's certified weight ratings. Sure, you might be able to pay extra fees to self-declare a higher GVWR, but that doesn't change the legal GVWR of the vehicle. Washington, like most states have laws about driving to fast for conditions. Not only can you receive a speeding ticket for driving under the posted speed limit, you can be found at fault for an accident.
Yes, I've seen people with 2500's pulled over when towing a 40+ foot toy hauler 5th wheel. No they were not speeding.
If you are over the weight limits by a little bit, you aren't likely to get pulled over. If you are involved in an accident and there is an investigation, you can and will be found at fault for being over the weight limit.
You may install helper springs, air bags, etc to make it appear that you are within your ratings, but during an accident investigation it isn't very difficult to look at the vehicle's GVWR, Axel Ratings, cargo rating, etc and compare it to the GVWR of the towed trailer.
Most 3500's only cost about $4000 more than the 2500, with the price tag of modern trucks that is a cheap upgrade. RAM's "blackout" option is more expensive and doesn't add any functionality.
Additionally, you must follow the laws of every state you travel through. A good example is someone from Idaho can double tow (or triple tow as some call it). It is illegal to double tow in Washington. That RVer would be forced to drop off their 2nd trailer before crossing the state line.
The crazy thing is that you can be personally sued for providing false information if it leads to an accident with injuries, death, and/or property damage, especially when you represent yourself as a subject matter expert. As it is possible that an insurance company, if they find out that the RV driver was ticketed due to excess weight over the legal limit, often will not pay on the claim. This means that that person may find that they are personally liable for all damages, which can quickly be in the millions of dollars. If they have a certain type of lawyer, that lawyer might just recommend that the person who acted as a subject matter expert and gave the false information is who should pay for the damages.
The difference between you and the sketchy RV dealers is that there is written proof of what you told the person to do. The RV dealer will always claim that they gave the weight limits of the trailer and told the customer that they needed a properly equipped tow vehicle. This is how they get away with selling "Half Ton" 5th wheels to people with 1500's that don't have the properly equipped truck. There have been court cases about this. The dealership will swear on a Bible that they told the purchaser what the requirements were and that they needed a properly equipped truck. It's not their fault that the customer didn't listen to them.
Personally, I think that the RV dealers, by law, should require that they verify that the tow vehicle is rated to tow the RV before letting the person hook up.
As for what you PERSONALLY do, that is on you and much different than what you recommend that other people do. It should be obvious to a "forum moderator" that the best thing is to give the proper information and let the reader decide what to do with that information.
I'm going to point out another fallacy regarding you get manufactures ratings.
ALL them 18 wheelers you see going down the road. Most have drive and trailer axles good to 25K lbs. Yet in a tandem situation, ie axles closer than about 8-9', you get 34K between them, or 17K per axel. If between about 8 and 12', you get 18500 per axle, and space enough apart, you get the 20K per axle. Hence why you see some flatbeds with the trailer axel spread way apart. No tare added to the trailer weight, yet you can put an extra 3000 lbs per axle load on them! You limit is still less than the manufactures ratings!
There are some vehicles that do get up to 25K per axle. Bus chassis for example, which can include in the RV world some Type A motor homes.
BUT< to reiterate, to get these load limits, you will need enough paid tax/registration to go down the road legally speaking.
You can also get an overweight ticket, still being under your paid for registration. If your paid for registration if say 32000 lbs, Your at 30000 lbs. BUT, your rear axle is at 21000, you will potentially get an overweight ticket of 1000 lbs. If your a real asset about this, even if not, the LEO can make you move the load around, such that you have 20K or less on that axel. So in the case of one sod farmer driver I know, he had to get his forklift off the trailer and move the pallets around, so his drive axles were under the 34000. He was legal in Canada where he was coming from, but illegal here in Wa St. I can name other examples how things get enforced too from multiple classes with CVEO's from the WSP. Mostly on under 26K gvw be it combined or solo rig examples.
ALL of these CVEO referred to manufactures ratings a "Warranty/performance" ratings. One literally said he could not care if you want to put a 100,000 lbs properly loaded trailer behind a toyota 4 banger pickup, destroy in 100 miles driving down the road. All he cared about was weights on the axle, stopping ability, and could it go the proper speed down the road!
I will swag, most states have weight police following similar laws rules etc.
MartyLike I said, you are not likely to get pulled over, unless it is obvious that you are doing something wrong. A 1500 pulling a 35 foot 5th wheel, a 2500 pulling a 40 foot 5th wheel might be obvious enough so some LEO, others may not care even if they know it's wrong. Once involved in a large enough accident, they can investigate and determine that you are at fault. They may just go by the certifications of the truck and trailer and not even weigh anything.
I'll put my neck out and tell a story. When I was young, dumb, and full of.. well if you are ex-military you likely know. Needless to say, when I got out of the Navy in 1992 I had a 1984 Toyota "extra cab" long bed truck with a canopy. It had the mighty 4 cylinder and 5 speed. I went to Uhaul and they would only let me get a 4x6 trailer. I needed bigger. A neighbor let me borrow his full sized truck and I was able to rent a 6x12 trailer.I filled the bed of the truck up and it was bottomed out. I then filled the trailer. The total cargo weight was over 12,000 pounds (I had to get the actual tare weight of the truck and trailer and then get it weighed full in order to get paid for my move). I drove from San Diego, California to Orlando, Florida at a top speed of 50 MPH. I had to run the heater the whole way to prevent over-heating. It never stalled out, and I was able to go at least 25 MPH through the passes.
That is what the truck could pull. It wasn't safe, it wasn't legal and if I failed to stop or the trailer or truck flipped I would have been found at fault in any state between California and Florida. I did what I had to do to get my wife and two sons to Florida with our few possessions. About 5 years later I gave the truck to my mom. My step-father used it to haul firewood for about 15 years before he got too old to use it.
The weight limits are there for a reason, safety. They assume a properly maintained vehicle, prepped for towing, in the best case conditions (flat and straight roads with good weather).Like I said, it is doubtful that you will get pulled over for being a bit over the limits of your vehicle, heck no one knows while you are driving unless your rear end is sagging and the trailer is swaying. It is not unheard of for people that are obviously overloaded to get pulled over. They don't care about the commercial weight limits at that point. They will say that the vehicle is in an unsafe condition and can not be driven.
With how little it costs to upgrade from a 2500 to a 3500 SRW, I don't see why anyone would recommend that people exceed the limits of their vehicle. Then again, I've seen people claim that the China Bomb tires are a myth and that they've never had a blowout and they drive 80MPH. To each their own.
