Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers

Bert
those 20000 lb axle weights are "max" weights and as you say we don't come into that class truck. We come in the 10000 GVWR and higher weights that FMCSA title 49 mentions. Look at part 571.3 for definitions of terms for GVWR/GAWR/GCWR [no numbers]. Now we go to the state we are registered in for where those weight numbers come from and how those numbers are inforced in the state the vehicle is registered in.
My state for example, when a weight check is required for a 3500 DRW, first looks at the tires capacities. Those officers know what approx weights a 3500 DRW tires fit in. If someone has installed semi truck 22.5 wheels/tires or 4500 19.5 tires/wheels with those higher capacities on that 3500DRW that throws a red flag. The officer then goes to the truck manufactors axle capacities from the trucks door tag and will use the smaller weight numbers between the two. Let me repeat this again, "this is how my state" enforces commercial or non commercial weights on 10000 GVWR and higher trucks. As my state dot officer says "the same weight regs", pertaining to the trucks door tag/plates, are used for that 3500 DRW when used for DOT legal commercial purposes or non commercial purposes or just hauling a RV or using the truck for farm use or going to Lowes for a load on concrete.
I would talk with your province motor vehicle authorities [2 or more] on how they determine and enforce axle weights/tires capacities/and truck GVWR for your trucks class.
JIM

But, you didn't address the first part of my post. I understand what the weight limits are, but none of my vehicles will ever see anywhere near 20K lb per axle. So, that restriction simply does not apply to me or to most people on this forum. The problem as I see it is figuring out the weight at which I can be ticketed. That weight will be much higher for my dually than my Venture, but neither will even approach the normal weight limits.

So, how do we define "overweight? Is it only when you exceed the 20K/axle, etc or is it the weight at which you can be ticketed? It has already been established that there are DOT weight limits for our tires so if I exceed the weight limit of my tires is my truck "overweight"? I know I can be ticketed, but I am not over the other weights. My truck doesn't have a registered weight, so I can't be over on that.

Bert

BertP wrote:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the 20K/axle, 34K/tandem and 80K gross apply regardless of what I register my vehicle for? That would make sence to me.

Those are generally the legal axle/gross weight limits. Again, your registered weight limits have nothing to do with axle/gross limits. Registered weight limits is a tax an owner pays to haul "X" amount of weight. Axle/gross weight limits are the max you can carry on an axle or gross. Don't confuse the 2. Completely separate issues.

Wadcutter wrote:
We've been thru this before Bert on another thread, and also in this one.
You are talking 2 separate laws and somehow are thinking one is related to the other. Registration weights have nothing at all to do with axle/gross weights.
Registration weight limits is a tax. It's the amount a person pays to haul a certain amount of weight. If your state/province doesn't register their small vehicles by weight then it's not an issue for you.

So, what you are saying is that since Alberta doesn't register the weight for a private vehicle, I can load my truck or any other privately registered vehicle to 39,999 lb (19,999.5 lb per axle) and as long as I have tires to support that load, I will be legal? That doesn't make sence to me especially if I did that with my Chevy Venture or my wife's Malibu but I have not been able to find any law here or anywhere else that either supports or refutes that.

Wadcutter wrote:
Axle/gross weights apply doesn't matter what your registration says.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the 20K/axle, 34K/tandem and 80K gross apply regardless of what I register my vehicle for? That would make sence to me.

Bert

This site provides state-by-state info on most of what is being discussed here. You may have to dig a little, but it's mostly all in this doc.

http://www.aitaonline.com/Info/Road/Low%20Clearances.html

BertP wrote:
What about States and Provinces where there is no registerd weight for a vehicle? Here in Alberta, unless you register your truck as commercial, you cannot register any weight. So, my Chevy 3500 dually has no weight registered. Does that mean that as long as I don't exceed the 20K lb per axle or any bridge or road weight limitation that I cannot be fined for having an overweight vehicle?

We've been thru this before Bert on another thread, and also in this one.
You are talking 2 separate laws and somehow are thinking one is related to the other. Registration weights have nothing at all to do with axle/gross weights.
Registration weight limits is a tax. It's the amount a person pays to haul a certain amount of weight. If your state/province doesn't register their small vehicles by weight then it's not an issue for you.
Axle/gross weights apply doesn't matter what your registration says.

BertP asked: "....why is it that the DOT folks have told me that I will be ticketed if I exceed the load capacity of my tires?"

DOT ratings are separate and distinct from any other ratings. Because the rating on your tires is a Federal DOT rating, it carries the force of law and governmental entities can fine you for exceeding it. The government assumes, prima facie, that loads in excess of DOT rated capacity are dangerous to the public at large and are therefore illegal. End of story. I believe that is because the government is actually certifying that rating to the public and will go after companies whose products fail to meet the specific standards the government has set for them.

Wadcutter wrote:
Once again you are confusing 2 separate issues.
I'm done discussing it with you. You have a mental block on separation of the 2 laws - overweights and registration. 2 separate sections and one not related to the other. It's impossible for me to explain it any clearer than I have. However, your mind is made up and you can't seem to separate the 2 issues. That's a clear indication of someone not fully understanding the topic.

What about States and Provinces where there is no registerd weight for a vehicle? Here in Alberta, unless you register your truck as commercial, you cannot register any weight. So, my Chevy 3500 dually has no weight registered. Does that mean that as long as I don't exceed the 20K lb per axle or any bridge or road weight limitation that I cannot be fined for having an overweight vehicle? If yes, why is it that the DOT folks have told me that I will be ticketed if I exceed the load capacity of my tires? If that is not called "overweight", what is it called?

Bert

the OP is about door tag RAWR. Door tag GVWR has been thrown into the question. Just talked to a odot lieutenant today and just as the OHP shift captain I mentioned earlier said we use those door plate [he called them] GVWR/GAWR numbers for commercial and non commercial enforcement for under 26000 lbs. They both confirmed the same reg enforcement for dot and non commercial users. The both did say they don't bother RVs BUT if they were forced to stop a Rv for serious overload condition/severe weaving the same regs will apply. Odot liutenant did say tires are the number one priority in weight checks in under 26000 class our 2500/3500 trucks fit in. Again, this is how my state interpets and enfore per the officers I mentioned. Other states can be different.
Don't take my word but check out those commercial haulers webs I mentioned and read the different forum subjects on weights and enforcement. One thing you will notice one size don't fit all in how each state dot chooses to interpet FMCSA regs.

JIMNLIN wrote:
let me say this again. When we apply and operate with combined plates for a 3500 truck [example] the door tag GVWR and the trailers GVWR is added together to make my combined numbers.

And let me say it again. You are confusing weight laws with registration. They are 2 separate issues.
What you are describing for the way your state registers trucks and trailers is exactly the same way done in IL.

JIMNLIN wrote:

your interpetation of your state weight laws and what mcs laws your state enforces may hold true in your state but your mistaking other state interpetation of those laws.

IL's MCS laws are the fed MCS laws. Even the sections are the same. When IL adopted the MCS laws in the very early 80s it was done in toto. Those were mandated by the feds to all the states.

JIMNLIN wrote:

MY state will enfore door tag weights and is cracking down on non commercial users such as 3500 trucks pulling heavy construction equipment.

Once again you are confusing 2 separate issues.
I'm done discussing it with you. You have a mental block on separation of the 2 laws - overweights and registration. 2 separate sections and one not related to the other. It's impossible for me to explain it any clearer than I have. However, your mind is made up and you can't seem to separate the 2 issues. That's a clear indication of someone not fully understanding the topic.

grey`eagle wrote:
Given the excellent information posted above. It appears that we RV'ers can safely and logically come to the conclusion that we are not subject to the weight laws (in IL and AL) for our class as long as we remain under 26,000#s.

RVers aren't subject to MCS laws. MCS just doesn't apply. Just to randomly say MCS would apply if over 26K doesn't take into account what MCS would actually require. People think if MCS applies then they'll need a CDL. If it were only that simple. If MCS laws would apply then RVers would have to complete a log book, limited on the number of hours they could drive, would be restricted to not carrying passengers unless properly licensed, carry an extra set of glasses if they wear them, carry extra batteries for hearing aids if they wear one, would have to carry a bill of lading listing everything they have in their RV, and all the other requirements commercial drivers have to put up with. In addition, if RVers were subject to MCS laws then any certified law enforcement officer could stop the RV without cause, do a complete inspection inside and out, and a LEO could place the RV out of service for too many hours or defective equipment with fines up to $10,000 per day.
But the fact is none of this even matters. This thread is about weight laws, not MCS laws. Since MCS is even mentioned by some shows they have no understanding of what it is about and they're talking smoke trying to give the impression they're informed. If they were really informed about the weight laws then they would never have mentioned MCS laws since MCS laws are completely separate from weight laws and have no bearing on the topic.

grey`eagle wrote:

For those that don't quite understand the references MCS law , read the link.

Your link concerns insurance issues. MCS is a whole lot more than insurance issues.

grey`eagle wrote:

Based on my testimony before juries and Grand Juries, I strongly believe that the inference and comparisons of vehicle mfg'ers limitation decals to mattress tags will not hold up.

Mixing apples and oranges. This entire thread has nothing to do with crashes, etc. It's about registration.
The fed stickers are required by law for initial sales. After that point they are not required on the vehicles.
Oh yeah, and I have testified too, quite a few times, on criminal and civil cases as not only the expert witness but as the person who conducted the investigation.

grey`eagle wrote:

If I'm not sadly mistaken, the reference to paint color is not on the limitation decal, it's buried in the VIN number. At least it is on the GMC and Ford products.

Ford and Dodge sure does have the colors listed on the fed sticker. It's been a while since I owned a GMC. It will be a 1 or 2 letter code listed somewhere on the fed sticker, right along there with the tire sizes, tire pressure, and other data that have no bearing on the law. It's simply amazing that guys get their undies in a wad worrying about what the sticker says about their weight but don't think anything about the same sticker listing tire size if they change tire sizes. Again, it all goes back to not understanding what it is they're talking about.
Also, the color is not part of the VIN. All manufacturers use the same 17 digit VIN numbering system. All the VIN does is tell the manufacturer, model, body style, year, plant where it was built, a check digit, and the sequential numbers. Nothing about color.