2018 Ram 2500
Trying to figure out the towing capacity for 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 hemi with 3.73 axle short bed crew cab. We are looking into buying a 14000 lb fifth wheel. Has anyone pull this heavy of a fifth wheel w...
Forum Discussion
Like I said, you are not likely to get pulled over, unless it is obvious that you are doing something wrong. A 1500 pulling a 35 foot 5th wheel, a 2500 pulling a 40 foot 5th wheel might be obvious enough so some LEO, others may not care even if they know it's wrong. Once involved in a large enough accident, they can investigate and determine that you are at fault. They may just go by the certifications of the truck and trailer and not even weigh anything.
I'll put my neck out and tell a story. When I was young, dumb, and full of.. well if you are ex-military you likely know. Needless to say, when I got out of the Navy in 1992 I had a 1984 Toyota "extra cab" long bed truck with a canopy. It had the mighty 4 cylinder and 5 speed. I went to Uhaul and they would only let me get a 4x6 trailer. I needed bigger. A neighbor let me borrow his full sized truck and I was able to rent a 6x12 trailer.
I filled the bed of the truck up and it was bottomed out. I then filled the trailer. The total cargo weight was over 12,000 pounds (I had to get the actual tare weight of the truck and trailer and then get it weighed full in order to get paid for my move). I drove from San Diego, California to Orlando, Florida at a top speed of 50 MPH. I had to run the heater the whole way to prevent over-heating. It never stalled out, and I was able to go at least 25 MPH through the passes.
That is what the truck could pull. It wasn't safe, it wasn't legal and if I failed to stop or the trailer or truck flipped I would have been found at fault in any state between California and Florida. I did what I had to do to get my wife and two sons to Florida with our few possessions. About 5 years later I gave the truck to my mom. My step-father used it to haul firewood for about 15 years before he got too old to use it.
The weight limits are there for a reason, safety. They assume a properly maintained vehicle, prepped for towing, in the best case conditions (flat and straight roads with good weather).
Like I said, it is doubtful that you will get pulled over for being a bit over the limits of your vehicle, heck no one knows while you are driving unless your rear end is sagging and the trailer is swaying. It is not unheard of for people that are obviously overloaded to get pulled over. They don't care about the commercial weight limits at that point. They will say that the vehicle is in an unsafe condition and can not be driven.
With how little it costs to upgrade from a 2500 to a 3500 SRW, I don't see why anyone would recommend that people exceed the limits of their vehicle. Then again, I've seen people claim that the China Bomb tires are a myth and that they've never had a blowout and they drive 80MPH. To each their own.
You realize the current tow ratings only have a 35mph without overheating the motors on a 5% grade! Less than minimum speeds in two states I mentioned. Yes faster than you went, but still under minimum speeds. I've been there with 3500's, even my navistar goes over i90 snoqualmie at 30 mph at 20-22K lbs. THen again, I have a whopping 175hp /335 lbs of torque, Yet it can pull a 30% grade at 30K! My 05 dmax can do 55-60 over I90 at 20-22K lbs, but cant pull but 20K at a 27% grade. Twice the HP, twice the torque, yet one spec is better on both, the other less than the other.
Reality, more to towing than just the GVW of the rig.
Also one has to know what the thing is setup to do. Those late 70 to mid 80 Toyotas were decent trucks for there size etc. I out hauled more full size 15 series rigs by lbs than I can quote with my 76 Wish I still had it.
BUT, again, if you would have been pulled over, weight would not have been the key to your problems. Stopping, asset dragging, swaying by more than 12-18' per side etc, to the point you are considered unsafe, those regs will hurt you, and get you off the road. The weight laws are there to protect the publics owner ship of the roads. Along with collecting the tax to cover you damaging the roads. Even if you are over the axel limits I mentioned, LEO's can still let you run down the road, after you pay the piper for being over the limits. This also assumes you have a safe rig etc.
Weight laws go back to wagon roads in the early 1800's. THere were no manufacture specs like we have today. Hence axle limits, and lbs per inch width of the tire. Thats how horse carts were measured to be over or under weight! Same as today. States can allow over 500 lbs per inch of tire, here a DW rig gets 600 vs singles at 500.
At the end of the day, no one is suggesting the OP run down the road at any legal maximum weight. Most if not all of us, have said 14K for that drivetrain is too much. A SW 35 vs a 2500, usually has no difference, Ford it is or was a 2" block between the axle and springs. Some SW trucks today, have more carrying capacity than a DW. Most DW in reality, more than a SW from a pickup standpoint. But there are SW setups that carry more than DW setups. Just not popular.
There is not a one size fits all in this game.
Marty
I've never seen a SRW with a higher capacity than a DRW, but it's possible. The other major advantage to the DRW is that almost all are extended wheelbase and the extra tires adds more side-to-side stability.
This makes a huge difference on rough curvy roads and/or windy conditions. It's almost a requirement for full profile 5th wheels because of how much the wind can push the 5th wheel side to side.
The other major advantage to the DRW is that almost all are extended wheelbase and the extra tires adds more side-to-side stability.
that's a wives tail also. the advantage of the extra set of tires is weight capacity nothing more. if you look at a 2014 f350 SRW and a DRW the shock mounts and Leaf mounts are in exactly the same places, infect I can bold a DRW axel directly to my existing leaf springs and shocks and just add a fender flair (for some reason ford uses the exact same box also and just adds a flair) so your pivot points are in the exact same place. the difference in stability when hauling comes 100% from the rating of the leave springs and the fact that the DRW comes with a sway bar. I can put the same leaf springs that a DRW has in my SRW and add the sway bar and if you didn't know it was a SRW you would not be able to tell the difference.
You’re half correct. Although the wider effective wheelbase and greater tire capacity at a wider width of a dually significantly reduces one of the 2 big components or body roll.
But you’re smart enough to to know that, no need to perjure yourself lol just to argue with Slackware…
Cheers!
Part of the big difference is context. The OP is obviously new and shouldn't be told what people think something can safely tow. They nee to be told what is legal and then, IMHO be pushed to go significantly below that, at least until they gain the needed experience.
What the vehicle can tow is vastly different than what it can safely handle. Roads many times busier now than when I drove that little Toyota over weight limits (and besides having to control heat driving through the south overloaded in the summer, it drove great (except pot holes). There was no trailer sway because I properly loaded the trailer). I honestly believe people are worse drivers now than then.
I can't say how many times I've had a little sub compact car pass me, pull into my lane and then suddenly slow down by 30 mph. You'd think that my big 3500 Crew Cab long bed 4x4 would be enough to prevent that, but they do it more often when I'm towing my 5th wheel. I've had semi's pull onto the freeway in front of me, causing me to suddenly have to go from 63 mph to 10 mph.My truck can to like a beast. Fully loaded driving over I-90 I've pulled over to relieve myself. I get back in the truck, get to 20 mph and hit resume and shortly am back at 63 mph. The HO engine with about 1000 ft/lb of torque growls and says "yes sir".
Going over White Pass (Wa 12), I rarely go over 50 mph. It's not that the engine couldn't easily go 90+, the road is too curvy and too bumpy to go faster. In fact many areas I go 40-45 mph. Then again, I often pull over to let people pass.
My 14,000 pound GVWR 5th wheel is large enough that a dually would really help out with stability in those conditions. I'm within my cargo capacity and other weight ratings, but the road conditions change those.
I honestly do not know exactly how they calculate the weight ratings. I do know that there is significant cushion. They have to account for the fact that a single part failing could change things. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't use 80% of the actual values (GVWR, GCVR, Axel weight, cargo capacity, etc). The ratings must take into account everything from what the frame can handle, to the axels, to the suspension and breaks.
There are pictures of 3500 dually's with broken frames. The frames snap from being overloaded.Some States require a special endorsement on your drivers license to be able to drive certain sized RV's. Many people called for CDL's for RVs, which I don't believe in. CDL's don't have much to do with RV driving and if you can do commercial hauling without a CDL (hot shotting), then it makes no sense to require a CDL for an RV.
I do agree that a special endorsement is the way forward. Pickups are getting bigger and bigger and so are the trailers and motorhomes. To many people that can't safely drive a car are buying large RV's. I hate to say this because I don't want more government regulations.
So many people don't understand how to safely handle larger loads, why the tires are important and so much more. It doesn't help that so many RV dealerships care more about the sale than safety.
The industry needs to rethink their whole "half ton towable" stance. Most 5th wheels place 20-25% of total weight on the hitch. There is just no way for a family of 4 to safely use a half ton truck to tow a fifth wheel. About the lightest new(ish) small 5th wheel has a dry weight around 8000 pounds. This means that at least 1600 pounds will be on the hitch, plus a 150 pound hitch (assuming a lightweight standard 5th wheel hitch). That's now 1750 pounds before passengers, pets, tools, wheel chocks, etc. So many people lift their trucks, which adds more weight and reduces towing safety. Then they put larger tires on which is even more weight.
This means that it is easy to exceed 2500 pounds of cargo with a new 25 foot 5th wheel.
With that said, I have no doubts that an experienced driver can safely drive a truck that is reasonably overloaded, as in 10-25%, if the tires, breaks and other components are in good shape and the vehicle is not in abnormal driving conditions (such as White pass).
