Electric Tow Vehicles - Getting close
Used to be a guy on the forum towing a tear drop with a tesla but really not suitable for the vast majority of RVers. We had a young family camp next to us this weekend and something didn't look rig...
Forum Discussion
Huh? The lightning is specific to the Ford F-150 EV. It's not a trim. It's their electric version of the F-150. Which by the way is selling abysmally and prices on used ones are dropping like a fat kid on a see-saw.
F-150 ICE's - all trim levels are selling just fine.
Up thread it was briefly discussed that govt intervention is rarely a good thing. The f150 ev was brought out under heavy govt pressure and doesn't fit most users. Towing is impractical with around 100mile range with a full battery, so every 1.0-1.5 hr you need to stop and it needs to be a full charge. Even a 250 mile run is 3-5 hr charging.
Even non towing it's marginal when selling to the typical conservative truck base if you want to use it for road trips.
It's got the price but not the functionality. It's almost as if they wanted it to fail, so they could say we did what was mandated but it doesn't work.
and to me that doesn't make sense, I have three friends from work who own them (lots of people have been going ev from work as they have charging stations at work so your car can charge for free while you work. hence my almost foray into the ev world) but they love them, and you see the f150 lightning on the roads all the time up here, but if you are just buying it for driving around. the Lightning can tow up to 10000lbs in the right trim and package and all ev's when they are towing max capacity get about 1/4 of their empty millage, ev's are not practical for towing, yet. more energy dense battery would help but it isn't going to change the fact it need more energy to drive the motors for the extra weight.
what it is good for is contractors who want to be able to put stuff in the bed and power tools at the job site and that was its main intention, the other thing it is good for is what probably 80% of truck owners use their trucks for, driving around and getting things from Costco. believe it or not those of us that actually use our trucks for towing or hauling campers are not buying f150's, yes there is that exception here and there but like I said 80% of the people who have f150's are not towing travel trailers.
so now with the charging rate you said, if you are on a trip your not going to use a 120V charger your going to stop at the blue oval network which includes the tesla dc super chargers and a 200 mile jaunt will take you 41 minuets on a extended range f150 lightning to recharge. it does 15-80% in 41 min, which works out to 196 miles of range on that battery. now towing will take longer as your not getting the full range from the same amount so yes you are right but that will be for any EV, as they haven't brought out any faster charging. ford has a patent on a cable that will do the same charge in 5 min, they are just doing trials, but then is it going to be practical to upgrade charging stations to ones that will handle the extra amperage and how much of a difference will it make in other things with the ev's.
so In my opinion, contrary to the title EV's are not even remotely close in anyway for towing (anywhere over 30% of their towing capacity) they should be bought with the intention they are sold for. commuting to work, powering a job site, or throwing a tent into the back with your camping gear and heading out. the F150 ev can power a campsite for 3 weeks it said, that's a game changer for tent camping, or even those pop up tents you see on roof racks and such I have seen some nice ones that go above the box, so they turn the box into a canopy covered box and then they pop up from that when your camping. something like that would be very ev friendly.
but getting back to my friends they love them, they use them for commuting back and forth to work, picking up stuff at the garden center or home depot to build a shed, two use the built in inverter to power stuff when they are building things or at ball games, you know normal truck owner stuff. as for the price it is getting better with the 17K in discounts they were offering this spring, but they were also the only real option for a decent truck ev, now that chevy is finally here, to late in my opinion, we will see what the prices do
Now maybe when we get to using solid state batteries it might be different, the range might still suck, but with a almost instant top up of power it might not be a big deal
Unsurprisingly, the discussion has wandered off course. That's normal, so let's reset a bit.
For 16-25ft trailers, 1/2 ton trucks are the most common option. Almost no one is towing 10k lb trailers with 1/2 ton ICE because even though they have the tow rating, everything else is overloaded. So we set at the beginning of the thread a more realistic assumption.
Everything I've seen suggests 50-60% of the non-towing range. Drastically more than the 1/4 you suggest. This is consistent is also much more consistent with ICE MPG results.
The F150EV was not the one suggested as getting close, so to rule out EV trucks as viable is like saying you can't pull a 16k 5er with a diesel dually because it would overload a Chevy Colorado.
A large percentage of contractors use their trucks to tow on weekends. They are also the ones more likely to be buying new.
Not sure why you brought up tent camping. A 40yr old ICE truck can power a tent for weeks...they don't use electricity, so they can power them forever in principal.
With a 220-230 mile range and ability to pick up an extra 100-120miles with a 1/2hr charge pulling a 16-25ft trailer, that's a pretty large selection of RVers where it's technologically feasible if they could get the price down comparable to an ICE.
Almost no one is towing 10k lb trailers with 1/2 ton ICE because even though they have the tow rating, everything else is overloaded. So we set at the beginning of the thread a more realistic assumption.
you haven't been to our trailer section or tow vehicle section lately 🤣
I had a 8000ish lb trailer before the 5th wheel and had a 1/2 ton, I did one trip and went to a 3/4 ton diesel. now one thing I will say is that I don't live in flat lands, I live in a Provence that is all mountains and that may influence what I see up here. 1/2 tones are for tent trailers and very small trailers. you also don't see as many 1/2 tons on the road and 1 tones and you don't see 3/4 ton trucks very much because they are the same price as the 1 ton because they have the luxury tax
The F150EV was not the one suggested as getting close, so to rule out EV trucks as viable is like saying you can't pull a 16k 5er with a diesel dually because it would overload a Chevy Colorado.
your confusing me with this, I have no idea what your taking about.
Everything I've seen suggests 50-60% of the non-towing range. Drastically more than the 1/4 you suggest. This is consistent is also much more consistent with ICE MPG results.
so real world buddy towing the max load behind his tesla gets approximately 1/4 the range (that is the max rating by tesla. buddy in his f150 lightning towing a car trailer loaded up with stuff got between 1/4 and 1/3rd his empty range. I am seeing a pattern from real world towing results. what would be nice is to have more people with ev's trying to tow the max and see what they get. and once again what I see might be skewed by the mountains
Not sure why you brought up tent camping. A 40yr old ICE truck can power a tent for weeks...they don't use electricity, so they can power them forever in principal.
because the ford sales add mentioned it could power the camp site for a long time and I thought it was a cool point, lets see your 40 year old ICE power a 1800 watt hot plate. I would have loved to have that ability when I was young and tent camping. could power a heater on cold nights, light, stereo, electric stove and not have to have a small chalet trailer with 10 car batteries in it
With a 220-230 mile range and ability to pick up an extra 100-120miles with a 1/2hr charge pulling a 16-25ft trailer, that's a pretty large selection of RVers where it's technologically feasible if they could get the price down comparable to an ICE.
to me that's still limiting, I can tow my 5th wheel 600miles before I have to get diesel, and to me its not so much about the range but rather the convenience of being able to pick gas stations that are easier to get in and out of, or getting to the camp site then unhooking and going to get diesel. granted with smaller rv's its not as much of a hassle. for living out here it still wouldn't be feasible for the majority with that low of a range. I could see in Eastern USA and California where the population is built up so much there is practically no where that far from a charging station, but up here a lot of time you are going up old forestry roads for 3 or 4 hours just to get to a good lake that isn't over crowded, I guess it would be good for people who camp on the major routes. another issue I have that made me pass on the ev last summer and buy a newer bronco sport for commuting back and forth to work, is I use it for quick trips all over also, down to the coast or to the nonboring province to see my folks, so down to the coast is a 300km drive (3 to 4 hours depending on traffic) so do able and you can charge down their. so basically a 4-5 hour drive down when you include the charging because you can't just leave it plugged in for 4 hours while your down there. then 3 hours home, that's 7 hours on the road and what ever you do while your down on the coast. so that adds about an hour to the trip so not to bad as its only 3 to 4 hours driving each way but when I go to my parents its almost 900 km so a 9 hour drive with out stopping, so now your adding two charging stops of about an hour each. there is a huge difference between a 9 hour drive and a 11 hour drive in one go.
but I am getting off track here and for the original, I still don't think we are close for them being feasible aside from like what was mentioned close to home small trailers, but I think the best way to go with them would be some sort of tent, weather it is traditional or the roof mount ones you are starting to see all over, those would keep your full range.
what really does have me excited is the progress they have made with H2-ICE engines. they present a range increase over normal ICE engine because the tanks are pressurized so they have the capability of holding a lot more fuel.
