04-05 Ford Excursion diesel towing?

johninedmonton wrote:
Well, you may want to check on the California emissions laws. They will be changing in 2016, and requiring ALL non-commercial vehicles to meet a minimum standard unless they are used for certain specific (read: non-road) purposes. To register your vehicle beyond a certain age (I admittedly don't know the age requirement) you will have to pass an emissions test. So if you sell your '95 7.3L the new owner will have to get it passed to register it in California.
In 2018 a similar requirement will be placed on commercial vehicles as well. It's part of changes made by the FTA (Federal Transport Act) in 2011, as driven by the Kyoto accords.

Many other states will be passing similar changes to comply with this federal requirement.


I research these laws for big companies for a living, I have literally 100's of hours of research and meetings logged on this particular subject.

Oh and Turtle, I don't deny that a duramax will last a long time; likely as long as a bullet proofed 6.0l powerstroke. I just can't seem to find a large SUV with a duramax in it. If you know of some, please enlighten us!

This is not 2016. I'v seen laws threatened in this state and then never come to pass. Ca may try to outlaw diesels in 2019 so should I not get one just because they are threatening a law in a few years?

I have no idea what new laws are going to be enacted in a few years and frankly neither do you. You might know what laws are going to be "proposed" but that is a loooooooong way off of enactment.

So what is the minimum standard of this new proposed law?. Do you have any numbers? I remember everybody freaking out when Ca started to smog diesels. It turned out to be just a visual opacity test that even a turn up engine could easily pass with flying colors. My 93 would pass a smog test easily even with a turned up pump.

As far as getting a smog test beyond a certain age we already have to do that in Ca. :h I have to get a smog test for my car when I bought it. No big deal. It passed, so no new news there. Diesels are even easier because it just a visual opacity test. Again, no big deal so I'm not sure why you seem to think this is anything new when we have been doing this for years in Ca to get our reg.

Not sure what your definition of big SUV is but lets see if I can help you out since you can't find one. This Suburban is pretty big and pretty cool!

Like the Excursion but think the 6.0 sucks? Think the 7.3 might get smogged in Ca and not pass? :R :B

Get one of these and your worries are over. :B

Another company that will make a dependable X.

Consider yourself enlighten. :B :B :B

PS, I still would sure like the see the many, many, many, non bandaided up 500,000 6.0's.

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

If it has to be a diesel, then that's it. I think the 6.0L is a nice motor after mods. Some say, "just install a coolant filter on it and it will stop plugging anything more than it already has".

The ARP studs seem like way, way overkill to me, especially at $500. Less costly studs should do the same thing; that is adequately improve the stretchy yield bolts they came with. Afterall, how much torque does one need to crank down the much softer heads? The stingy 4 head-bolt per piston pattern is why they are critical, but if left stock or moderately boosted, any new solid bolt/stud should do the trick.

One may note that Fords older Windsor and Cleveland V-8 gasoline blocks also used only 4 bolts as compared to SB Chevy's 5. The advantage for these Ford gassers was more room for improved ports, but the disadvantage was head-gasket leakage at high boost levels. More than one 4-bolt blower 302 (5.0L) block had copper oringed heads for sealing. Therefore one might expect the 4-bolt 6.0L heads to breathe exceptionally well... except nobody worries about it anymore when they can just turn up the boost. Aha! The charge air entering the cylinder can be cooler however, since less overall boost is required. Very efficient.

If it doesn't have to be a diesel, why not a 2015 Expedition XL with EcoBoost? If the Expy is rated anywhere near the F-150, it will have superior tow numbers (11,400) to the old Excursion (11,000). Maybe not as much mass, but the Excursion has a ton and a half frame under it that never gets fully utilized anyway. Besides, I believe the Expy has built-in OEM towing stability control and better brakes than the old Ex.

Wes
...

Hi Wes,

How do you like your v10 excursion? I've considered it instead of the diesel.

I have an expy el now. It's rated at 8,900 lbs. which is lower than a comparable f-150. I expect the new Eco boost wil be about the same. The issue I have with it is that 60mph with my 7,500 lb trailer destroys my fuel economy. Apart from that, it's a good rig.

...

If it has to be a diesel, then that's it. I think the 6.0L is a nice motor after mods. Some say, "just install a coolant filter on it and it will stop plugging anything more than it already has".

The ARP studs seem like way, way overkill to me, especially at $500. Less costly studs should do the same thing; that is adequately improve the stretchy yield bolts they came with. Afterall, how much torque does one need to crank down the much softer heads? The stingy 4 head-bolt per piston pattern is why they are critical, but if left stock or moderately boosted, any new solid bolt/stud should do the trick.

One may note that Fords older Windsor and Cleveland V-8 gasoline blocks also used only 4 bolts as compared to SB Chevy's 5. The advantage for these Ford gassers was more room for improved ports, but the disadvantage was head-gasket leakage at high boost levels. More than one 4-bolt blower 302 (5.0L) block had copper oringed heads for sealing. Therefore one might expect the 4-bolt 6.0L heads to breathe exceptionally well... except nobody worries about it anymore when they can just turn up the boost. Aha! The charge air entering the cylinder can be cooler however, since less overall boost is required. Very efficient.

If it doesn't have to be a diesel, why not a 2015 Expedition XL with EcoBoost? If the Expy is rated anywhere near the F-150, it will have superior tow numbers (11,400) to the old Excursion (11,000). Maybe not as much mass, but the Excursion has a ton and a half frame under it that never gets fully utilized anyway. Besides, I believe the Expy has built-in OEM towing stability control and better brakes than the old Ex.

Wes
...

To the OP while I have only owned a 00 Ex and a 03 Ex from my experience and the forums some of the areas that might need attention and are known to wear/need attention/checking

Non engine: ball joints, shocks, steering box (wandering), leaking EFOF systems (4x4), stuck front hubs (non use), maybe front u joints, axle seals, drive shaft clunk from lack of lube, door lock actuators (can stick), rear hatch lock mechanism (can stick), rear hatch struts (weak upgrade with longer ones), etc.

Some complain about the stock soft suspension (hits bump stops) and do a V/modified B spring swap or a X/modified B spring swap off of F250/350 or some just use longer shackles to gain suspension height and preserve stock ride.

6.0L engine wise: dirty/wrong coolant (clogged oil cooler leading to EGR cooler failure then HG failure), also sand casting left from block formation that can clog oil cooler(mult flushes and/or coolant filters). Most recommend either using Ford Gold (w/distilled H20) and religiously check and flush at scheduled intervals or flush several times with water and use an approved ELC coolant w/distilled H20 that last 300K+ miles.

Cold start issues from bad injectors (dirty fuel, low lubricity) or stiction (oil quality, newer FICM flash addresses problem), EGR valve coking up or stuck, VGT vanes sticking (too much idling), glow plugs/modules, FICM failures from weak solder joints that can fail under heat/vibration and/or weak batteries/alt, underperforming FICM also gives cold start/drivability problems and leads to premature injector failure.

HPOP failures (03-04 poor design), hot start issues caused by high pressure oil leaks on because of STC fitting, stand pipes and dummy plugs used on 05 and up

Fan clutch (expensive), various harnesses (chaffing or oil contamination), IPR and ICP sensors (cause no start/drivability problems), ruptured or missing oil screen (allowing junk to go into HPOP/inj) intercooler boots, radiators (leak at seams), degas bottle (weak cap and/or cracked bottle).

As one said earlier not the best vehicle to buy "as is" then jump on an across country trip. Will cost $$$ to upgrade but is an efficient/strong/quieter engine, strong stock trans (5/6 sp auto) and only diesel suv unless you go with a Duraburb (Suburban 2500 with Duramax/Allison combo).

https://sites.google.com/a/duraburb.com/duraburb/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCmONI_sanE

but might have problems with local emission inspectors explaining why the gas engine sounds like a diesel :-)

Well, you may want to check on the California emissions laws. They will be changing in 2016, and requiring ALL non-commercial vehicles to meet a minimum standard unless they are used for certain specific (read: non-road) purposes. To register your vehicle beyond a certain age (I admittedly don't know the age requirement) you will have to pass an emissions test. So if you sell your '95 7.3L the new owner will have to get it passed to register it in California.
In 2018 a similar requirement will be placed on commercial vehicles as well. It's part of changes made by the FTA (Federal Transport Act) in 2011, as driven by the Kyoto accords.

Many other states will be passing similar changes to comply with this federal requirement.

I research these laws for big companies for a living, I have literally 100's of hours of research and meetings logged on this particular subject.

Oh and Turtle, I don't deny that a duramax will last a long time; likely as long as a bullet proofed 6.0l powerstroke. I just can't seem to find a large SUV with a duramax in it. If you know of some, please enlighten us!

You shouldn't have to spend 8k or more to "bullet proof" a diesel engine. You pay a premium for it when you buy the vehicle, it should last. I suffered a 6.0 meltdown at 200k miles and I couldn't stomach spending the money to fix it. I'm just hoping my 6.7 lasts longer.

That being said, you're in a tough spot if you need a big SUV. If you know ahead of time and factor the cost to bullet-proof in your purchase price, it might work out for you. I've not heard of any failures after bullet-proofing (doesn't mean there aren't any).

johninedmonton wrote:
http://www.customautosbytim.com/
Properly modified, aka bulletproofed, it's one of the most reliable engines on the road.

The issue with getting an older 7.3L is that you're likely stuck with a sub-par transmission. To me, that's a bigger risk. Plus you may run into issues if you're going into states that are strict with their emissions requirements. In a few years you'll likely have the very real problem of not being able to register it in most states because of the emissions. Forget selling it at that point.

Just do your homework. Pre-bulletproof the vehicle and you'll be fine. Many many many Excursions have 500k+ miles on them without a full bulletproof. That's a solid machine in my books!

LMAO, I can say that about the 5.7 Olds diesel........or any engine for that matter. :R I bet I could have a bad a$$ 5.7 diesel TV after bullet proofing for 50 grand. :R Or I could just buy a D-max and be done with it. No bullet proofing needed!

I agree with the 7.3 tranny but what the @##*& are you talking about with emission requirements? I live in the republic of Kalifornia, ( you might of heard of it?) one of the most restrictive states in the United States when it comes to smog. As long as it passes smog for the year it was designed and made, I'm, and everybody else is golden.

IOW's my 1993 diesel does not have the same smog requirement as my 06 diesel.

Have any links for your many, many, many 6.0 Excursions that have 500k+ miles on them without a full bulletproof or are you just guessing?

http://www.customautosbytim.com/

There's the link to the guy who does aftermarket Excursion conversion. I would expect he has Ford's blessing.

As for the unreliable 6.0L, I disagree. Properly modified, aka bulletproofed, it's one of the most reliable engines on the road. I think the very public errors that Ford made on the engine has allowed for one of the most reliable and solid diesels ever built; once the EGR cooler is replaced and the oil cooler filter has been added.

The issue with getting an older 7.3L is that you're likely stuck with a sub-par transmission. To me, that's a bigger risk. Plus you may run into issues if you're going into states that are strict with their emissions requirements. In a few years you'll likely have the very real problem of not being able to register it in most states because of the emissions. Forget selling it at that point.

Just do your homework. Pre-bulletproof the vehicle and you'll be fine. Many many many Excursions have 500k+ miles on them without a full bulletproof. That's a solid machine in my books!

johninedmonton wrote:

dgreen1069 wrote:

I'm really bummed Ford no longer makes the Excursion. I would love to buy a newer truck, but nobody makes anything comparable to the Ex.

There's actually a company in the NE that will convert a F-250 or F-350 into an Excursion. Sure, it's amazingly expensive. Ridiculous, even. About $40-50k not including the truck.

They even call it an Excursion with badging and everything.

So you COULD potentially get a newer Excursion. You know, if you're stinking rich and have money to burn.

Interesting, thanks for posting that.

I assume they must have a relationship and/or blessing from Ford if they actually badge it as an Excursion.

An F350 DRW 6.7L coverted to an Excursion (while keeping the duals) would be a pretty neat tow rig for those with big families and big RVs.

If I only had an extra $95000 laying around...

On topic, I love diesels and SUVs but I'm an example of one who would LOVE to have a 6.0L Excursion but isn't willing to take the risk of a breakdown and/or multi-thousand-dollar repair bill.

Put another way, if I felt I could trust it I'd have a 6.0L Excursion in my driveway right now.

dgreen1069 wrote:

I'm really bummed Ford no longer makes the Excursion. I would love to buy a newer truck, but nobody makes anything comparable to the Ex.

There's actually a company in the NE that will convert a F-250 or F-350 into an Excursion. Sure, it's amazingly expensive. Ridiculous, even. About $40-50k not including the truck.

They even call it an Excursion with badging and everything.

So you COULD potentially get a newer Excursion. You know, if you're stinking rich and have money to burn.