12 volt Refrigerators
Have any thoughts on the new 12 volt Refrigerators?
So far I am impressed with the 10 Q ft.
Not much of a amp draw
So far I am impressed with the 10 Q ft.
Not much of a amp draw
BurbMan wrote:JRscooby wrote:
Change batteries every day? You use that much power?
If you are away from the camper, what is drawing power?
The discussion is around a 12v compressor fridge that would draw a lot more power than an absorption fridge does while running on propane. Somebody posted a model with a power draw of 1.1a @120v, and at that rate, you would get about a day out of a battery. When you come back to camp with the charged battery in the truck, the dead one in the camper would suck it dry.
BurbMan wrote:JRscooby wrote:
Change batteries every day? You use that much power?
If you are away from the camper, what is drawing power?
The discussion is around a 12v compressor fridge that would draw a lot more power than an absorption fridge does while running on propane. Somebody posted a model with a power draw of 1.1a @120v, and at that rate, you would get about a day out of a battery. When you come back to camp with the charged battery in the truck, the dead one in the camper would suck it dry.
JRscooby wrote:
Change batteries every day? You use that much power?
If you are away from the camper, what is drawing power?
JRscooby wrote:
Change batteries every day? You use that much power?
If you are away from the camper, what is drawing power?
Gdetrailer wrote:JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
I am sure there are folks doing this, however, I suspect most folks would get pretty tired of shuffling around 80lb-160lb batteries on a daily basis.
Not to mention even if you had a direct line on the TV to the depleted batteries you would find that the depleted batteries would not get enough charge to warrant this kind of hassle.
Instead, you would have to use some sort of DC-DC charging system or 120V inverter to 12V converter/charger that boosts the TV's voltage up to a higher voltage in order to ever affect any appreciable charge on the depleted batteries.
Then you would have to be running your vehicle for hours and hours non stop. Most times you rarely will need to run a vehicle more than half hr one way and half hr back unless you are planning to take 6hr each way \"day trips\". Not going to be much charging happening with short trips.
Cost in building up such a system and cost in work plus cost of daily hassle = not worth it to me. That's a younger man's game, over the years I have wised up and look for LESS WORK.
Far better to size the battery bank for the loads and run time expected/needed between charging and perhaps add in some solar to round out and extend your time a bit.
No free meals, no free energy, you have to pay for it somewhere..
If your gonna camp with no commercial power, manup, buy enough batteries and solar to do the job or run a generator.. Anything else is a lot of hassle added to your camping, I don't know about you, but myself, my priority is not attending to more hassle and work and I am not afraid of pulling the gen starter cord if needed if it means less hassle..
Gdetrailer wrote:JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
I am sure there are folks doing this, however, I suspect most folks would get pretty tired of shuffling around 80lb-160lb batteries on a daily basis.
Not to mention even if you had a direct line on the TV to the depleted batteries you would find that the depleted batteries would not get enough charge to warrant this kind of hassle.
Instead, you would have to use some sort of DC-DC charging system or 120V inverter to 12V converter/charger that boosts the TV's voltage up to a higher voltage in order to ever affect any appreciable charge on the depleted batteries.
Then you would have to be running your vehicle for hours and hours non stop. Most times you rarely will need to run a vehicle more than half hr one way and half hr back unless you are planning to take 6hr each way \"day trips\". Not going to be much charging happening with short trips.
Cost in building up such a system and cost in work plus cost of daily hassle = not worth it to me. That's a younger man's game, over the years I have wised up and look for LESS WORK.
Far better to size the battery bank for the loads and run time expected/needed between charging and perhaps add in some solar to round out and extend your time a bit.
No free meals, no free energy, you have to pay for it somewhere..
If your gonna camp with no commercial power, manup, buy enough batteries and solar to do the job or run a generator.. Anything else is a lot of hassle added to your camping, I don't know about you, but myself, my priority is not attending to more hassle and work and I am not afraid of pulling the gen starter cord if needed if it means less hassle..
Gdetrailer wrote:Reisender wrote:ajriding wrote:
The \"new\" electric fridges, I assume you refer to the Danfoss compressor-style ones? They are wonderful. You posted un-necessarily as there are quite a few post on here talking about them. Try a search next time to see if there are not already 300 post on this exact same subject.
They run on 12 or 24 volts, or when plugged into household current will run on 24 volts converted from the 120v alternating current.
Never use a household refrigerator unless u plan to park permanently.
Why not.
Some folks just believe (mistakenly so) that residential 120V compressors are \"energy hogs\" and they are fragile and will not survive being jostled on the road..
They are dead wrong on both aspects.
There are some residential fridges that may be less efficient due to the design/layout or use of higher wattage defrost heater and electric door heaters but it is easy to find those just be looking at the name plate max current draw.. Often those will have a 6.5A at 120V rating, but if you search carefully you can find plenty of very low current draw fridges..
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
I measured mine at 90W for the compressor and the defrost only runs 10 minutes for every TEN hrs of COMPRESSOR RUN TIME.
Compressor runs about 22 minutes per hr..
\"Danfoss\" compressors typically use 2.5A-3.5A (30W-40W) at 12V so sure they are a little bit more \"energy efficient than a direct 120V compressor but in the bigger pix, not all that much. Danfoss compressors also come with a HEFTY price tag and they drag along considerably more expensive, complex and fragile variable speed driver board which adds something else to break down..
Interesting enough, Dometic has brought out a 10 cu ft Danfoss fridge that seems to have a much higher current draw rating than what it should at 15A (180W) at 12V!!! Found that HERE which pretty much makes the argument for Danfoss being more energy efficient null and void..
But hey, some folks just can't part from anything the is marketed for the \"RV\" market..
The price of that Dometic leaves me cold at $1250! Found that HERE
You can buy a lot of solar and batteries for that crazy price.. Heck my 10cu ft residential fridge cost $300, I can buy 300W of solar plus en extra pair of GC2s and still have money in my pocket..
But, hey, at least it is built buy a \"quality\" RV manufacturer, right? :R
Gdetrailer wrote:Reisender wrote:ajriding wrote:
The \"new\" electric fridges, I assume you refer to the Danfoss compressor-style ones? They are wonderful. You posted un-necessarily as there are quite a few post on here talking about them. Try a search next time to see if there are not already 300 post on this exact same subject.
They run on 12 or 24 volts, or when plugged into household current will run on 24 volts converted from the 120v alternating current.
Never use a household refrigerator unless u plan to park permanently.
Why not.
Some folks just believe (mistakenly so) that residential 120V compressors are \"energy hogs\" and they are fragile and will not survive being jostled on the road..
They are dead wrong on both aspects.
There are some residential fridges that may be less efficient due to the design/layout or use of higher wattage defrost heater and electric door heaters but it is easy to find those just be looking at the name plate max current draw.. Often those will have a 6.5A at 120V rating, but if you search carefully you can find plenty of very low current draw fridges..
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
I measured mine at 90W for the compressor and the defrost only runs 10 minutes for every TEN hrs of COMPRESSOR RUN TIME.
Compressor runs about 22 minutes per hr..
\"Danfoss\" compressors typically use 2.5A-3.5A (30W-40W) at 12V so sure they are a little bit more \"energy efficient than a direct 120V compressor but in the bigger pix, not all that much. Danfoss compressors also come with a HEFTY price tag and they drag along considerably more expensive, complex and fragile variable speed driver board which adds something else to break down..
Interesting enough, Dometic has brought out a 10 cu ft Danfoss fridge that seems to have a much higher current draw rating than what it should at 15A (180W) at 12V!!! Found that HERE which pretty much makes the argument for Danfoss being more energy efficient null and void..
But hey, some folks just can't part from anything the is marketed for the \"RV\" market..
The price of that Dometic leaves me cold at $1250! Found that HERE
You can buy a lot of solar and batteries for that crazy price.. Heck my 10cu ft residential fridge cost $300, I can buy 300W of solar plus en extra pair of GC2s and still have money in my pocket..
But, hey, at least it is built buy a \"quality\" RV manufacturer, right? :R
Gdetrailer wrote:JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
I am sure there are folks doing this, however, I suspect most folks would get pretty tired of shuffling around 80lb-160lb batteries on a daily basis.
Not to mention even if you had a direct line on the TV to the depleted batteries you would find that the depleted batteries would not get enough charge to warrant this kind of hassle.
Instead, you would have to use some sort of DC-DC charging system or 120V inverter to 12V converter/charger that boosts the TV's voltage up to a higher voltage in order to ever affect any appreciable charge on the depleted batteries.
Then you would have to be running your vehicle for hours and hours non stop. Most times you rarely will need to run a vehicle more than half hr one way and half hr back unless you are planning to take 6hr each way \"day trips\". Not going to be much charging happening with short trips.
Cost in building up such a system and cost in work plus cost of daily hassle = not worth it to me. That's a younger man's game, over the years I have wised up and look for LESS WORK.
Far better to size the battery bank for the loads and run time expected/needed between charging and perhaps add in some solar to round out and extend your time a bit.
No free meals, no free energy, you have to pay for it somewhere..
If your gonna camp with no commercial power, manup, buy enough batteries and solar to do the job or run a generator.. Anything else is a lot of hassle added to your camping, I don't know about you, but myself, my priority is not attending to more hassle and work and I am not afraid of pulling the gen starter cord if needed if it means less hassle..
Gdetrailer wrote:JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
I am sure there are folks doing this, however, I suspect most folks would get pretty tired of shuffling around 80lb-160lb batteries on a daily basis.
Not to mention even if you had a direct line on the TV to the depleted batteries you would find that the depleted batteries would not get enough charge to warrant this kind of hassle.
Instead, you would have to use some sort of DC-DC charging system or 120V inverter to 12V converter/charger that boosts the TV's voltage up to a higher voltage in order to ever affect any appreciable charge on the depleted batteries.
Then you would have to be running your vehicle for hours and hours non stop. Most times you rarely will need to run a vehicle more than half hr one way and half hr back unless you are planning to take 6hr each way \"day trips\". Not going to be much charging happening with short trips.
Cost in building up such a system and cost in work plus cost of daily hassle = not worth it to me. That's a younger man's game, over the years I have wised up and look for LESS WORK.
Far better to size the battery bank for the loads and run time expected/needed between charging and perhaps add in some solar to round out and extend your time a bit.
No free meals, no free energy, you have to pay for it somewhere..
If your gonna camp with no commercial power, manup, buy enough batteries and solar to do the job or run a generator.. Anything else is a lot of hassle added to your camping, I don't know about you, but myself, my priority is not attending to more hassle and work and I am not afraid of pulling the gen starter cord if needed if it means less hassle..
JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
JRscooby wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
I have had a off the wall idea for somebody that sets up the camper then spends part of most days out and about in the TV. How mush power does the camper use while you're out? I would think a small battery could handle that for a week or so. Now mount another battery, big enough to handle normal loads for a couple of days on the TV. Driving would keep that battery charged, just hook to camper when get back. Might need to switch batteries if don't move often enough to keep trailer charged...
NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
NRALIFR wrote:
I don’t have solar panels right now, although I could add some now that I have a DC-DC charger that has a solar input. I may add some someday, but for now taking advantage of the charging potential available while driving was a better fit for our traveling and camping style. Up to 40 amps whenever the engine is running. Our trips usually involve a lot of driving, sometimes at night when solar doesn’t seem to work very well, so I needed something I could depend on more.
BurbMan wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
That's 1.1a @ 120v...at 12v that's 11a. My old 3-way absorption fridge used about 15a on 12v for the heating element. One of the reasons I replaced it with a 2-way that I just run on propane.
The new 12v compressor fridges are good for some applications, but are still challenging for boondocking without a generator. just like a 120v residential fridge. Solar is great, but you're dependent on the weather, a cloudy day will kill your production. In my TC, there's just isn't enough real estate on the roof for 400w of panels.
I believe that eventually absorption fridges will become obsolete but the tech just isn't there yet.
Remember that marine is not apples-to-apples....1) propane is not allowed below deck; 2) any boat big enough to have a fridge has a generator; and 3) you don't stay in one spot on the water like you do in a CG.
BurbMan wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
That's 1.1a @ 120v...at 12v that's 11a. My old 3-way absorption fridge used about 15a on 12v for the heating element. One of the reasons I replaced it with a 2-way that I just run on propane.
The new 12v compressor fridges are good for some applications, but are still challenging for boondocking without a generator. just like a 120v residential fridge. Solar is great, but you're dependent on the weather, a cloudy day will kill your production. In my TC, there's just isn't enough real estate on the roof for 400w of panels.
I believe that eventually absorption fridges will become obsolete but the tech just isn't there yet.
Remember that marine is not apples-to-apples....1) propane is not allowed below deck; 2) any boat big enough to have a fridge has a generator; and 3) you don't stay in one spot on the water like you do in a CG.
Gdetrailer wrote:
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
Gdetrailer wrote:
Often 10 cu ft \"apartment size\" are good choice because they typically have the lowest draw and best insulation.. The one I have has a name plate draw of 1.1A for the compressor and 1.6A defrost draw.
