13' Eco Towing Performanec

Add that the compression ratio of the gasser isn't high enough to attain the
temps needed to ignite without a spark

Plus the rate of burn (not explosion on regular gasoline compression
ratios...but on one high enough for self ignition...it *WILL* become
an explosion) for gasoline is too fast for compression ignition. A
gasoline engine with compression ratios high enough to self ignite
'can' do it...but not for long

Hybridhunter wrote:

BenK wrote:
....
Noodle this, folks who think DI can not ping...the air has to be
fueled BEFORE the spark, so there is a time 'in there' when the air
is loaded with fuel and is when 'ping' or 'pre-ignition' can happen

It has been stated by Ford engineers that the Ecoboost engine could pretty much function without spark plugs after start up. Being DI, the fuel could be in (and likely is), injected at the same time the spark plug fires.
Ping or pre-ignition occurs substantially before TDC, there is no reason to suggest this can't be controlled by injection timing.

Not true at all. Why do you think Ford recomends premium fuel while towing with their EB? Why? Because Ford is trying to control detonation that's why.

The problem is getting enough fuel into the CC ATDC. This can't be done at this time. There is so much volume of fuel that needs to go into the CC over so short of a period that is can't be done in that short of a time period at high RPM.

Fords DI engine works like any other injected engine (time wise) when injecting fuel. IOW's the fuel in injected into the CC before TDC just like any other engine when WOT.

BenK wrote:
....
Noodle this, folks who think DI can not ping...the air has to be
fueled BEFORE the spark, so there is a time 'in there' when the air
is loaded with fuel and is when 'ping' or 'pre-ignition' can happen

It has been stated by Ford engineers that the Ecoboost engine could pretty much function without spark plugs after start up. Being DI, the fuel could be in (and likely is), injected at the same time the spark plug fires.
Ping or pre-ignition occurs substantially before TDC, there is no reason to suggest this can't be controlled by injection timing.

BenK wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Where are all those people that argued and argued AND argued with me over and over that a DI turbo engine can't detonate because "they" said the fuel was injected after the intake stroke.

You are only protected from embarrassment by RV.Net's inadequate bogus search engine. :B

OP, if I were you and towed in the moutains around sea level on hot days you better use the good stuff or the puter will pull so much timing you will overheat. You think the good stuff is expensive? Wait until you hurt that engine and Ford says you didn't follow their advisements. :E

X2

Have had discussions on how retarded timing can overheat and it goes
to understanding how an ICE works

If retarded 'enough', the combustion CONTINUES as the exhaust valve
opens and into the exhaust manifold

The CC is meant to have both valves closed during the main charge's
burn. There is overlap, but the combustion charge is pretty much
spent by the time the exhaust valve opens in an over lap condition

Noodle this, folks who think DI can not ping...the air has to be
fueled BEFORE the spark, so there is a time 'in there' when the air
is loaded with fuel and is when 'ping' or 'pre-ignition' can happen

Wow, missed the DI/pinging discussion. Spot on.

Kevin O. wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Yep then add in the premium price tag of that EB using premium fuel at the same mileage as any other trucks towing a trailer and you didn't save a thing. But is fast...or so I hear. :B

Don

I didn't mind paying the extra $750.00 for the Ecoboost. Just like your low end torque monster Cummins i wanted the same experience while i towed my trailer. Not having to constantly see the Trans searching for the right gear and have to listen to 5000 rpms on every hill . The little extra cost was well worth it. Not to mention the 11,000+lb towing capacity you get!! Certainly don't see that on any dodge 1/2 ton.. :B

And you never will I hope. :B

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Yep then add in the premium price tag of that EB using premium fuel at the same mileage as any other trucks towing a trailer and you didn't save a thing. But is fast...or so I hear. :B

Don

I didn't mind paying the extra $750.00 for the Ecoboost. Just like your low end torque monster Cummins i wanted the same experience while i towed my trailer. Not having to constantly see the Trans searching for the right gear and have to listen to 5000 rpms on every hill . The little extra cost was well worth it. Not to mention the 11,000+lb towing capacity you get!! Certainly don't see that on any dodge 1/2 ton.. :B

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Where are all those people that argued and argued AND argued with me over and over that a DI turbo engine can't detonate because "they" said the fuel was injected after the intake stroke.

You are only protected from embarrassment by RV.Net's inadequate bogus search engine. :B

OP, if I were you and towed in the moutains around sea level on hot days you better use the good stuff or the puter will pull so much timing you will overheat. You think the good stuff is expensive? Wait until you hurt that engine and Ford says you didn't follow their advisements. :E

X2

Have had discussions on how retarded timing can overheat and it goes
to understanding how an ICE works

If retarded 'enough', the combustion CONTINUES as the exhaust valve
opens and into the exhaust manifold

The CC is meant to have both valves closed during the main charge's
burn. There is overlap, but the combustion charge is pretty much
spent by the time the exhaust valve opens in an over lap condition

Noodle this, folks who think DI can not ping...the air has to be
fueled BEFORE the spark, so there is a time 'in there' when the air
is loaded with fuel and is when 'ping' or 'pre-ignition' can happen

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Rocket have you driven a SRT with the 6.4 in it? Even the 5.7 SRT will out preform the EB, a non SRT 5.7 only gets beat by less then one second in the 1/4, 6.7 Ram 6.1 EB. But like you pointed the Ford is a bit portly to say the lest. That will change when the new aluminum body (not frame) go into production!

Don

Aluminum body will be a very nice improvement and change! It will be interesting to see the results of being put on a diet. I still fail to see the importance of a speed performance truck. To me it seems an expensive waste. Give me a lower center of gravity, suspension tuned performance car any day.

The 6.4, no, not yet. I had ordered my wife's Sequioa from our friend's dealership (combined Toyota/Dodge) and he let me take out the 2010 SRT Challenger...yes a few years old now but the portlyness continues to plague most SRT models...excluding the Viper.

My opinion of my test drive where I got to rail on it:

Challenger exterior styling = +. That car looks great.
Noise = intoxicating +
Straight line rolling acceleration = +

Launch from a stop = neutral, but I am sure continued driving one would learn the nuances appropriately.
Interior styling = neutral, didn't like or hate it but thought it could use improvement (however, lower price performance cars generally get a pass in this area from me)

Cornering = huge -

The cornering was what completely killed it for me. The car was way too heavy and soft in the corners...felt like my grandfather's yesteryear Caddy. One could argue it is strictly built as a muscle car but I argue muscle cars today are not your 60's/70's muscle cars. Cornering is important for today's road going daily driver car...which the SRT Challenger certainly is.


Sorry for the thread deviation OP.

Rocket have you driven a SRT with the 6.4 in it? Even the 5.7 SRT will out preform the EB, a non SRT 5.7 only gets beat by less then one second in the 1/4, 6.7 Ram 6.1 EB. But like you pointed the Ford is a bit portly to say the lest. That will change when the new aluminum body (not frame) go into production!


We have come a long way from these don't you think?



Don

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Yep then add in the premium price tag of that EB using premium fuel at the same mileage as any other trucks towing a trailer and you didn't save a thing. But is fast...or so I hear. :B

Don

Meh, quick for a truck, yes, fast...no. At a 3 ton curb weight, the power/weight ratio is not so great...kinda like a SRT (non-Viper of course ;) :B)