1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 8. Fresh Water
This Part 8. Fresh Water, begins at a stage in our game of rebuilding the left sidewall of the camper. It is here on that side where we run into the utility connections, much of which are fresh water ...
Forum Discussion
Very good find ticki2; that gives validity to my concept. This unit by Anderson is designed to accomplish the same thing I'm wanting to do, and it assumes that it is easiest to run many lines to one spot, simply creating functionality at the control location.
My case is somewhat similar, but my unique issue is limited space available for non-freeze locations to run lines, especially bulky (or ugly) lines like a gravity feed.
I'll be doing something similar in that I can accomplish the same function with a city water hookup at the wall tied into the ONE plumbing cold water line. From there, that same (smaller diameter 1/2") line runs to the water pump outlet (near the fresh water tank) under pressure, eliminating a need for 1/4" slope per foot required by a gravity feed (a slope that just isn't possible on the inside of the camper if I move toward the future taller refrigerator).
At that pump outlet area another line will tee off and run to the tank neck filler and that's where my "tank fill" manual valve will live. I lift up the cab-over step access door, turn a valve and watch the translucent tank fill. Meanwhile, if DW calls for something and I have to leave the process to run on its own, and I forget what I was doing, the valve is set such that it flows slowly, like a gravity feed, and when the tank is full, the overflow hose takes over and starts spewing overfill out the side of wherever I've located the overflow outlet. Maybe where the gravity fill was originally! Short run, small diameter exit.
What that all gains me is: removing the bulky gravity feed hose from the refrigerator area where sloped space isn't at a premium, connecting fresh water tank fill and city water supply through ONE fresh water hose, fill the fresh water tank from inside the coach (probably with a coffee in one hand while doing so), and a reduced number of water lines overall!
Not sure if I've described this before now, but here is how we plan to plumb.
Of course hot water will be very short runs - from hot water tank a short run to galley sink and spray port, right next to each other and next to the heater. Another run tees off at the tank outlet and runs to the bathroom sink/shower.
Cold is similar. Cold comes into the coach as a city water connection under the galley sink and runs to a tee that connects then to the water heater. From the other side of the tee a cold line runs to the water pump outlet. Near there it tees off to that replacement gravity feed fill valve right at the tank inlet (1.25" which I'll neck down to 1/2"), and of course a pick up from the tank to the pump inlet. And that pickup will have another valve to switch off the tank and on an anti-freeze jug with a flexible hose inserted - that's a no-brainer and an easy solution for winterizing that I did and loved on our pop-up.
Back under the galley sink, a cold line tees off the main line for the galley sink and one for the spray port. And like the hot, a tee at the water heater cold inlet sends a cold line out the other way too for the bathroom sink/shower. And of course a water heater bypass will be installed.
What remains is "where will the lines run"? Those that aren't under the galley counter and nearby the water heater, or aren't under the cab-over step, will be run "visibly outside the cabinetry". Even going so far as to come out of the top left area of the galley counter, go up the camper back wall, cross over the aisle near and above the door header, go through the bathroom wall in an area below the ceiling, but above the top of the door opening, make an el shaped path along the bathroom ceiling and then down an interior wall to the faucet/shower diverter mounted on the interior surface near and above the sink basin.
The other interior space involved is the single cold line between the under galley sink and the fresh water tank/pump. That line will run along the top, inside of the camper's truck box wall, in a kind of lip below the bottom of the range level. Below your knee and above your shin.
Keeping all these lines such will give the best chance against freezing, and the shortest run possible from the back left of the camper (water heater) to the back right of the camper (shower). I really hate long hot water lines between the water heater and the use area, as you waste so much water while trying to get it hot.
The under cabinet areas will have a "heating capability" of some sort, either low power vent fans like on a computer, or at least a door that opens allowing air to mix in extreme cold conditions. Similar door openings kept my long time ago 1954 TT from freezing up until we reached 15 below zero F on one particular Elk hunt.
Now what kind of lines will we run on the interior? Blue and Red Pex? White poly? Naw, those don't compliment vintage camper looks. But copper does! Copper has a fine look! And it just so happens copper is one of DW's favorites (with even copper flecks in our home quartz counter tops). Oh yeah, we like it.
So our vision is 1/2" rigid copper pipe for those visible runs, and either the same behind the scenes or flexible hose connections like you do in your home between the wall shut off valve and the sink faucet, whichever is a best choice in any given circumstance.
The copper sweating will be done clean to look good and clamps used in such a way as to allow the plumbing run to double as a hanging rod, like a wash cloth or towel rod in or near the bathroom, or a place to hang this or that along the run below the galley area (curtain rings to clip onto clothes or herbs needing to dry?).
Here is an example of how we used this treatment in our home at a time when we could buy copper pipe cheaper than specifically designed curtain rods of any substance.
This is another example of how you can think outside the box when doing a project like this. How many things are done in the RV world because of "manufacturer convenience" or industry standard as in "that's how we've always done it". Just like in religious or political viewpoint - we like to reason why. Does it make sense for us? Where is the logic? Why can't we? Look what this gains us!
That's just kind of how we roll. And thanks guys for the input.
My case is somewhat similar, but my unique issue is limited space available for non-freeze locations to run lines, especially bulky (or ugly) lines like a gravity feed.
I'll be doing something similar in that I can accomplish the same function with a city water hookup at the wall tied into the ONE plumbing cold water line. From there, that same (smaller diameter 1/2") line runs to the water pump outlet (near the fresh water tank) under pressure, eliminating a need for 1/4" slope per foot required by a gravity feed (a slope that just isn't possible on the inside of the camper if I move toward the future taller refrigerator).
At that pump outlet area another line will tee off and run to the tank neck filler and that's where my "tank fill" manual valve will live. I lift up the cab-over step access door, turn a valve and watch the translucent tank fill. Meanwhile, if DW calls for something and I have to leave the process to run on its own, and I forget what I was doing, the valve is set such that it flows slowly, like a gravity feed, and when the tank is full, the overflow hose takes over and starts spewing overfill out the side of wherever I've located the overflow outlet. Maybe where the gravity fill was originally! Short run, small diameter exit.
What that all gains me is: removing the bulky gravity feed hose from the refrigerator area where sloped space isn't at a premium, connecting fresh water tank fill and city water supply through ONE fresh water hose, fill the fresh water tank from inside the coach (probably with a coffee in one hand while doing so), and a reduced number of water lines overall!
Not sure if I've described this before now, but here is how we plan to plumb.
Of course hot water will be very short runs - from hot water tank a short run to galley sink and spray port, right next to each other and next to the heater. Another run tees off at the tank outlet and runs to the bathroom sink/shower.
Cold is similar. Cold comes into the coach as a city water connection under the galley sink and runs to a tee that connects then to the water heater. From the other side of the tee a cold line runs to the water pump outlet. Near there it tees off to that replacement gravity feed fill valve right at the tank inlet (1.25" which I'll neck down to 1/2"), and of course a pick up from the tank to the pump inlet. And that pickup will have another valve to switch off the tank and on an anti-freeze jug with a flexible hose inserted - that's a no-brainer and an easy solution for winterizing that I did and loved on our pop-up.
Back under the galley sink, a cold line tees off the main line for the galley sink and one for the spray port. And like the hot, a tee at the water heater cold inlet sends a cold line out the other way too for the bathroom sink/shower. And of course a water heater bypass will be installed.
What remains is "where will the lines run"? Those that aren't under the galley counter and nearby the water heater, or aren't under the cab-over step, will be run "visibly outside the cabinetry". Even going so far as to come out of the top left area of the galley counter, go up the camper back wall, cross over the aisle near and above the door header, go through the bathroom wall in an area below the ceiling, but above the top of the door opening, make an el shaped path along the bathroom ceiling and then down an interior wall to the faucet/shower diverter mounted on the interior surface near and above the sink basin.
The other interior space involved is the single cold line between the under galley sink and the fresh water tank/pump. That line will run along the top, inside of the camper's truck box wall, in a kind of lip below the bottom of the range level. Below your knee and above your shin.
Keeping all these lines such will give the best chance against freezing, and the shortest run possible from the back left of the camper (water heater) to the back right of the camper (shower). I really hate long hot water lines between the water heater and the use area, as you waste so much water while trying to get it hot.
The under cabinet areas will have a "heating capability" of some sort, either low power vent fans like on a computer, or at least a door that opens allowing air to mix in extreme cold conditions. Similar door openings kept my long time ago 1954 TT from freezing up until we reached 15 below zero F on one particular Elk hunt.
Now what kind of lines will we run on the interior? Blue and Red Pex? White poly? Naw, those don't compliment vintage camper looks. But copper does! Copper has a fine look! And it just so happens copper is one of DW's favorites (with even copper flecks in our home quartz counter tops). Oh yeah, we like it.
So our vision is 1/2" rigid copper pipe for those visible runs, and either the same behind the scenes or flexible hose connections like you do in your home between the wall shut off valve and the sink faucet, whichever is a best choice in any given circumstance.
The copper sweating will be done clean to look good and clamps used in such a way as to allow the plumbing run to double as a hanging rod, like a wash cloth or towel rod in or near the bathroom, or a place to hang this or that along the run below the galley area (curtain rings to clip onto clothes or herbs needing to dry?).
Here is an example of how we used this treatment in our home at a time when we could buy copper pipe cheaper than specifically designed curtain rods of any substance.
This is another example of how you can think outside the box when doing a project like this. How many things are done in the RV world because of "manufacturer convenience" or industry standard as in "that's how we've always done it". Just like in religious or political viewpoint - we like to reason why. Does it make sense for us? Where is the logic? Why can't we? Look what this gains us!
That's just kind of how we roll. And thanks guys for the input.