thanks everyone i'm taking my time trying to do this right first time went shopping tonight saw a new Hideout 260LHS and thought nice 14,700 ok then he showed me a new Passport Ultra Lite Grand touring 2810BHS we fell in love 22,000 though a bit more than I wanted to spend but it makes the hideout look kinda small and bland I can afford it but eats into my spending money I told them I would think about it not going to rush into anything this is a huge purchase for my family paying extra now might be better than trying to upgrade a few years down the road planned on going used when I started but I don't know now I will keep you posted and I never can hear too many opinions thanks again