2016 Ford Superduty Looks Hot!
Spy Photos of the 2016 Ford Superduty engineers roasting marshmallows
Forum Discussion
Turtle...am in complete agreement, as usual...but...there are more points
of information
First...I've never been in an auto on fire...seen many and a few of my
buddies. Never have I seen one burn down to the ground like this one.
Even the aluminum 2 seaters
Aluminum is highly reactive and one of the most of the metals category
Most think very stable as it is seemingly impervious to the stuff that
eats unprotected steel...but that is the operative...'unprotected'. As
aluminum will naturally form a protective coating in seconds after it
is scratched to remove that oxide coating. That oxide coating is also
known by the man made 'anodized' coating. Alu oxide is the second
hardest material known to mankind. First is diamond and third is jadeite
Toss in whatever alloy this vehicle's body is made from...and...the
chemistry of the 'other' stuff. Both going on during this event and the
on going. 'On going' is something been noodling a bit ever since this
series of threads on this one event.
Must be an alloy, as pure aluminum is soft. Most likely in the 6000 series
Aluminum is highly reactive. Thermite, rocket fuel and your fireworks
are just a few examples.
Back to Turtles point...the basic body of this prototype is stable.
As it has both the natural oxide coating and paint
And here is the 'but' there are other potential attributes at play...
During the initial phases of the fire...the aluminum body continued to
be stable as Turtle points out...it is just before this image that the
'chemistry' took place
These comments are my 'guesses' as to what 'most likely' took place
Again, as turtle pointed out, aluminum as most know it is stable and
does NOT burn easily. It will if the right circumstances are in place
First, the alu oxide must be removed. In whole or in part. In part...
enough to get the fire/explosion going
Everyone admits that alu powder suspended in air and/or mixed with
the right components, in the right everything (size, suspension, etc)
will explode...but...let's take a look at the why of that
This happens in a flash...the powder particles get hot enough to remove
the alu oxide coating
Now that exposes the 'highly' reactive alu to the stuff that gets it
going...mainly oxygen
Once those powder particles glow and ignite...they cause nearby particles
to like wise to become a cascading event, but in a flash
Mix in other components that help catalyze the event to make it
burn or explode
The issue that Turtle points out is that a hunk of alu will not do
this. The amount of heat is very high and that there needs to be other
materials to catalyze that event
Once the alu oxide coating is gone...now all it needs are high heat and
the diesel fire provides that
Next it will need the catalyzing components/materials. Acid is one of
the main ones. Other metals too (copper is one). Even water (H2O) and
that is where much of the freed oxygen comes from.
Also think HOATs is a component in this. The 'A' is acid and its job
is to etch away the metal coatings to expose bare metal to the 'O'
(organics) to coat & create the protective coating
'Etched' metal floating in the coolant...hmmm...depending on the makeup
of that brew...could become another catalyst that sprays it all over
after the fire consumes enough of the hoses...
Toss in potential electrical arcing and it's temp in the neighborhood
of the Sun....in addition to the brew of stuff going on under the hood
Once aluminum gets to that point...it is self fueling & propagating
as long as the other catalysts are available
Too much to write and forgot most of this stuff. So looked some up and
here are some links for those who find this stuff interesting...I do
and do read this stuff
Reactive Chemicals
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/0063.pdf
http://www.ehs.pitt.edu/assets/docs/combustible-metals.pdf
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/57
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/reactive/react.html
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/equip/alrefdatasheet.htm
This one indicative of some of the research into HOW2 produce hydrogen
for hydrogen fuels for automotive...not going to work on a mass scale...
of information
First...I've never been in an auto on fire...seen many and a few of my
buddies. Never have I seen one burn down to the ground like this one.
Even the aluminum 2 seaters
Aluminum is highly reactive and one of the most of the metals category
Most think very stable as it is seemingly impervious to the stuff that
eats unprotected steel...but that is the operative...'unprotected'. As
aluminum will naturally form a protective coating in seconds after it
is scratched to remove that oxide coating. That oxide coating is also
known by the man made 'anodized' coating. Alu oxide is the second
hardest material known to mankind. First is diamond and third is jadeite
Toss in whatever alloy this vehicle's body is made from...and...the
chemistry of the 'other' stuff. Both going on during this event and the
on going. 'On going' is something been noodling a bit ever since this
series of threads on this one event.
Must be an alloy, as pure aluminum is soft. Most likely in the 6000 series
Aluminum is highly reactive. Thermite, rocket fuel and your fireworks
are just a few examples.
Back to Turtles point...the basic body of this prototype is stable.
As it has both the natural oxide coating and paint
And here is the 'but' there are other potential attributes at play...
During the initial phases of the fire...the aluminum body continued to
be stable as Turtle points out...it is just before this image that the
'chemistry' took place
These comments are my 'guesses' as to what 'most likely' took place
Again, as turtle pointed out, aluminum as most know it is stable and
does NOT burn easily. It will if the right circumstances are in place
First, the alu oxide must be removed. In whole or in part. In part...
enough to get the fire/explosion going
Everyone admits that alu powder suspended in air and/or mixed with
the right components, in the right everything (size, suspension, etc)
will explode...but...let's take a look at the why of that
This happens in a flash...the powder particles get hot enough to remove
the alu oxide coating
Now that exposes the 'highly' reactive alu to the stuff that gets it
going...mainly oxygen
Once those powder particles glow and ignite...they cause nearby particles
to like wise to become a cascading event, but in a flash
Mix in other components that help catalyze the event to make it
burn or explode
The issue that Turtle points out is that a hunk of alu will not do
this. The amount of heat is very high and that there needs to be other
materials to catalyze that event
Once the alu oxide coating is gone...now all it needs are high heat and
the diesel fire provides that
Next it will need the catalyzing components/materials. Acid is one of
the main ones. Other metals too (copper is one). Even water (H2O) and
that is where much of the freed oxygen comes from.
Also think HOATs is a component in this. The 'A' is acid and its job
is to etch away the metal coatings to expose bare metal to the 'O'
(organics) to coat & create the protective coating
'Etched' metal floating in the coolant...hmmm...depending on the makeup
of that brew...could become another catalyst that sprays it all over
after the fire consumes enough of the hoses...
Toss in potential electrical arcing and it's temp in the neighborhood
of the Sun....in addition to the brew of stuff going on under the hood
Once aluminum gets to that point...it is self fueling & propagating
as long as the other catalysts are available
Too much to write and forgot most of this stuff. So looked some up and
here are some links for those who find this stuff interesting...I do
and do read this stuff
Reactive Chemicals
Water Reactives
Water reactive materials can react violently or vigorously in contact with water, wet surfaces, or even the moisture in the air. These chemicals may react to give off a flammable gas (such as hydrogen) or a toxic gas, (such as phosgene) or spontaneously burn or explode. Water is obviously NOT a good choice for putting out fires caused by water reactive chemicals. A class D fire extinguisher is designed to be used to fight fires caused by certain water reactive chemicals.
Examples:
Alkali metals (Sodium metal, lithium metal)
Anhydrides (acetic anhydrides)
Carbides (calcium carbide)
Halides (Acetyl chloride, titanium chloride, stannous chloride)
Hydrides (sodium hydride)
Organometallics (tetramethyl aluminum)
oxides (sodium oxides)
Peroxides (sodium peroxide)
Phosphides (aluminum phosphide)
and others (chlorosulfonic acid, aluminum tribromide).
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/0063.pdf
http://www.ehs.pitt.edu/assets/docs/combustible-metals.pdf
Aluminum (Al): Aluminum is used both as a commercially pure metal and as an alloy.
In finely divided powder or dust form, aluminum and its alloys are combustible in air and
present a serious combustion explosion hazard. Aluminum will react violently with many
chemicals. Aluminum particles and smaller turnings will react with water to form hydrogen
gas which is highly flammable and explosive in favorable concentrations.
The rapid vaporization of water in contact with molten aluminum can
result in rapid phase transformation explosions. Halogenated
extinguishing agents should not be used.
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/57
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/reactive/react.html
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/equip/alrefdatasheet.htm
This one indicative of some of the research into HOW2 produce hydrogen
for hydrogen fuels for automotive...not going to work on a mass scale...
