2020 IKE raw and unedited

4x4ord wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Kinda funny how the Cummins has to try to "keep up"

Everywhere I travel the RAM/CUMMINS dominates the individual owned HotShot RV hauler market.

Personally I DON'T want any of these gimmicks to help me into my truck bed, I made a retractable side step to hitch and unhitch my B&W. If I need to get into the bed I simply step on the bumper!

Based on the last downhill testing the other two need to improve as this is the MOST important part of towing.

UH, what engine and transmission was running the coolest?

Anyone can make the fastest truck up a grade but not anyone can make it do so for a Million Miles as MANY Cummins have done. Look up the "Cummins High Mileage Club".

"The striving to keep up" relates more to things like:

Ford realized the need for a compacted graphic iron engine block to handle the stresses of over 1000 lb ft of torgue when they introduced the 6.7 back in 2011. Cummins has only now adopted that design.

Ford incorporated a roller cam and lifters in their 6.7 .... Cummins is only now adopting that technology.

Ford has gone to steel pistons which I believe to be a huge step toward taking the capability of these engines forward ..... Cummins will likely need to do the same.

Ford is introducing a variable displacement oil pump ..... will Cummins follow?

The Cummins is obviously a very good engine and for what I use a truck for I'm sure the Cummins is good enough. I'm suggesting that Ford is pushing the envelope and Cummins is playing catch up.

As far as basing your decision as to which truck you'd buy on the superior performance of the Cummins exhaust brake goes ... Does that mean you would buy a Ford if it was demonstrated that the Ford (in second gear) could hold a 30,000 lb trailer back on a 10% grade with less brake applications than the Cummins?

And 6.7 Flowerjoke engines are nice and very impressive numbers. But omg, Ford is the only one to top the old GM Detroit 6.5TD for add on, bandaid, poorly engineered, overly complicated ancillary engine controls and parts.

Regardless of the fun discussions here. And whom wears their loyalty on their sleeve, undies, and forum user names, 12V is right. Ram demolishes the competition in over the road light duty and med duty haulers. Aka hotshot trucking.
Why? It's not becasue hotshot drivers have the financial luxury of being fan boys like some of us.
It's a down n dirty, rubber meet road, who can shave pennies the most to make the most $ in a very competitive market with low margins (due to the simplicity and easy entry from a cost/qualifications standpoint.). In other words you don't need to have any sort of pedigree to enter the career path and its typically staffed with very dark blue collar folks.

So why almost every hotshot truck I see passing on I90 daily is a Ram? Why are there ALOT of old Dodge cummins combos in service? Talking 2nd and 3rd gen trucks here.
Why do the newer Dmax and Pstroke numbers pale by comparison even added together?

It's because you can't beat the longevity AND simplicity of the b series Cummins in a light duty truck. Even with the relaible and very strong Dmax and Powerstroke engines, the repair cost and complexity of them is greater than the C engine. Fact, not opinion.

If you don't beleive it, let's take a common long term wear part like injectors.
Contest is least $, least amount of time and least amount of tools to replace.

The guy who gets the cummins to work on, any cummins compared to either of the other 2 brands, any year model, wins. Again, fact.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Kinda funny how the Cummins has to try to "keep up"

Everywhere I travel the RAM/CUMMINS dominates the individual owned HotShot RV hauler market.

Personally I DON'T want any of these gimmicks to help me into my truck bed, I made a retractable side step to hitch and unhitch my B&W. If I need to get into the bed I simply step on the bumper!

Based on the last downhill testing the other two need to improve as this is the MOST important part of towing.

UH, what engine and transmission was running the coolest?

Anyone can make the fastest truck up a grade but not anyone can make it do so for a Million Miles as MANY Cummins have done. Look up the "Cummins High Mileage Club".

"The striving to keep up" relates more to things like:

Ford realized the need for a compacted graphic iron engine block to handle the stresses of over 1000 lb ft of torgue when they introduced the 6.7 back in 2011. Cummins has only now adopted that design.

Ford incorporated a roller cam and lifters in their 6.7 .... Cummins is only now adopting that technology.

Ford has gone to steel pistons which I believe to be a huge step toward taking the capability of these engines forward ..... Cummins will likely need to do the same.

Ford is introducing a variable displacement oil pump ..... will Cummins follow?

The Cummins is obviously a very good engine and for what I use a truck for I'm sure the Cummins is good enough. I'm suggesting that Ford is pushing the envelope and Cummins is playing catch up.

As far as basing your decision as to which truck you'd buy on the superior performance of the Cummins exhaust brake goes ... Does that mean you would buy a Ford if it was demonstrated that the Ford (in second gear) could hold a 30,000 lb trailer back on a 10% grade with less brake applications than the Cummins?

Kinda funny how the Cummins has to try to "keep up"

Everywhere I travel the RAM/CUMMINS dominates the individual owned HotShot RV hauler market.

Personally I DON'T want any of these gimmicks to help me into my truck bed, I made a retractable side step to hitch and unhitch my B&W. If I need to get into the bed I simply step on the bumper!

Based on the last downhill testing the other two need to improve as this is the MOST important part of towing.

UH, what engine and transmission was running the coolest?

Anyone can make the fastest truck up a grade but not anyone can make it do so for a Million Miles as MANY Cummins have done. Look up the "Cummins High Mileage Club". RAM's even tow two Fords at a time with ease!

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"You don’t see Ford or GM putting their motors in my Utility world"

This is why I say the 6.7 Cummins is "True Medium Duty".

You do realize he is talking about power generators and you are talking about on road vehicles classes right?

Yes I do understand, Boats, Gens and other MD Truck applications. I am talking ALL applications!

I can think of multiple instances in recent years where newer systems, particularly active collision avoidance almost resulted in an unnecessary collision on vehicle equipped with that technology, and at least one instance where, if equipped, would not have allowed the avoidance maneuver I performed to avoid the collision.

The technology is great, but what it cannot always account for are conditions it can't "see" or the actions or reactions by other drivers/vehicles as a result of the "automated" action taken by another vehicle.

Prime example, came around a corner, into blinding sunlight, fully loaded, in the 07 Ram. Camper on the back, 6000lb trailer with surge brakes in tow. Vehicle stopped in my lane waiting to turn left. I could not stop in time. Active collision avoidance would have hammered the brakes on for me, maybe a split second before I could do the same. Still wouldn't have stopped before rear ending this vehicle. I recognized that and also recognized immediately that the shoulder was just wide enough to stuff an 8' + wide train through it without contacting the other vehicle. But shoulder also had a deep ditch on the outside.
After a brief brake application, I swerved quickly onto the shoulder to avoid impact, but also realize that the trailer would swing wide and probably break lateral traction on the grass/gravel and get sucked into the ditch. So immediately dropped a gear and dropped the hammer to yank the trailer straight. Ended up accelerating past the stopped vehicle which probably seemed counterintuitive to the person who was about to get rear ended by 9 tons of vehicle.
Couldn't have done any of this if the trucks computer hit the brakes hard. The delay in letting me the operator take over would have prevented the right shoulder pass.

Even last night. In old Tahoe, raining, traffic, I made a right turn onto a 4 lane street after a vehicle passed. Right as I turned, another vehicle came out from under the bridge, out of a blind corner going fast. Have to see the intersection to understand.
Car very likely would have rear ended us or had to make some very evasive maneuver not to. Therefore, I judged he'd stay in his lane and I need to get to the left lane fast. Hammered it mid turn, in 2wd. Locker kicked in in back and I did a power slide right into the clear lane as fast as one could after breaking traction. If I'd happened to be in one of our vehicles with traction control and stability control, it would have chopped the throttle and stopped the slide, not knowing "why" I threw the vehicle into a power slide and didn't let up. And the driver behind me would have had a more difficult and urgent decision to make, that I spared him the necessity of making.

Now, not bragging, that I have better cognitive and driving skills than the average driver, but I do. Period. Some of these features are a hinderance or a danger. Sometimes they help, sometimes the driver can out think the car.

While I'll likely have one of these new fangled trucks for personal use in a couple years, 16 pages of discussion, a lot about how multiple vehicle control systems are integrated together automatically for performance that is virtually seamless, tells me there is ALOT going on with these rigs.
That's cool, and I like these features in the wife's car, albeit only cautiously trustworthy of them still. Car has tried to get us rear-ended a couple times.

I can't help but liking that I can be 100% in control of the throttle input, braking input and exhaust brake all with my right foot and the flick of a switch on the shifter.

4x4ord wrote:
^^^^ I think it is really something that Ford could develop a clean sheet engine that could compete with the Cummins let alone become the engine that Cummins has to strive to keep up with. It would be interesting to see the numbers. How many 6.7 Cummins are built per year vs 6.7 Fords as well as where they are being used. Looking forward the new Powerstroke will be used in some pretty heavy trucks where as the Cummins 6.7 might be more a pick up truck engine.

I agree , I don’t bother very often to get into these discussions , they are ALWAYS a pi$$ing contest on whose truck is the best . But how true on just the engine compared to where they were with the international engine . How long has the Cummins been around , and yet , yes how they have to strive to keep up .

I know this is not that important , but has Ram come up with yet, just the simple device as a tailgate step to get into the bed . Maybe too busy keeping up in the engine department . :B

Cummins makes engines. Cummins doesn't make Trucks. Ford and Gm make a ton of engines for their products. Ram uses Cummins because they are good. Makes ram owners brag but ok. Chevman

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"You don’t see Ford or GM putting their motors in my Utility world"

This is why I say the 6.7 Cummins is "True Medium Duty".

You do realize he is talking about power generators and you are talking about on road vehicles classes right?