28,500 lbs Ford vs Ram 1 ton DRW

BigToe wrote:


I'm not buying the notion that Cummins only certifies engines, irrespective of application.

This thread began with a towing contest between some type of Ford (irrelevant) pitted against a recent model (2017? 2018?) Ram 3500. So to be safe let's look at a 2017 Model Year Ram 3500 with a Cummins ISB 6.7L diesel engine.

Remembering that Cummins only builds engines, not vehicles, we already know that Cummins put the ISB 6.7L engine into many other vehicles in model year 2017 besides the Ram 3500. For example, there is the Ram 2500, 4500, and 5500. There is also the Freightliner M2-106 and 108SD; the International Durastar, Workstar, and new HV series; the Autocar ACMD XPert (small refuse truck), ACX XPeditor (big refuse truck) and ACTT XSpotter (yard goat); the BlueBird Vision and All American (school buses); the dozens of motorhome manufacturers who outfit their class A coaches with the ISB 6.7L; the dozens of stationary power applications, off road equipment, airport shuttle busses, municipal busses... you get the idea.

Yes, I get the idea because I used to work for Cummins on the very same engines you are talking about.

BigToe wrote:
In fact, you established the idea, in this thread, that Cummins builds and certifies the engine without respect to the vehicle, "because they cannot control the intake and exhaust system that the engine will be put in."

You misread what I stated. I never aid that Cummins certifies engines without respect to the vehicle. I said "Cummins uses J1995 just like all engine manufactures that only make an engine and cannot control the intake and exhaust system of the vehicle the engine will be put in." Which is a fact because Ram designs the intake not Cummins.

I followed this up by saying"This does not mean that Cummins(or any other engine manufacturer) cannot simulate the intake and exhaust system that these engines are going in" meaning that Cummins can(and has) utilized the intake and exhaust of the truck the engine will be going in for power certification.

BigToe wrote:


The notion that Cummins is certifying engines for Ram pickups as engines only, without regard to the regulated emission system components of the vehicle, is not supported by the 34 page application that Cummins submitted to the EPA back in 2015 to get their engine in the RAM 3500 certified for model year 2017, nor the hundreds of applications that Cummins submits every year, for every Engine Family number, of every Engine they make, whether for destined for fire apparatus, compressor duty, or racing Fords up mountains with trailer in tow.

The very fact that the engine is certified under J1995, which can only be done by an engine manufacturer, is proof to what I am telling you. Again, you are misreading what I stated. By me saying that Cummins tests the engine, you are thinking that i am saying that they are testing the engine only. This cannot be done per J1995 and you have to take the intake and exhaust into consideration when certifying these engine at different power levels. This can be simulated in a test cell.

This is very close to what those tests cells look like.



Even vehicle manufacturers test their engines the same way, but have to go by J1349 since they make the entire vehicle and not just the engine.