2WD or 4WD

I've got a feeling that most of us 4 wheel drive arguers are "almost" saying the same thing.

About the main question in this thread. It's often said here, if you need to ask, you probably don't need it. I tend to agree with that. It'll probably be a rare day that you would need it, but it's darned handy on that day.

Sport45 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Well the fact is when the steering wheels are also driving the vehicle the will go the direction that the wheels are turned, far better direction control.

I wish that was true. If the steer wheels are spinning you actually have little directional control.

If a spinning tire gave directional control we'd of had a lot of trouble burning donuts in the school parking lot, no? The donut is only possible because the spinning rear wheels slide sideways pretty easy.

Spinning vs slipping.

A "spinning" front wheel with traction will "pull" the vehicle in the direction you point it.

A "slipping" front wheel will be USELESS.

rhagfo wrote:
Well the fact is when the steering wheels are also driving the vehicle the will go the direction that the wheels are turned, far better direction control.

I wish that was true. If the steer wheels are spinning you actually have little directional control.

If a spinning tire gave directional control we'd of had a lot of trouble burning donuts in the school parking lot, no? The donut is only possible because the spinning rear wheels slide sideways pretty easy.

BenK wrote:
Repeat...if you have to ask, don't get it

It has been very bad for serious off roading when the fashion statement crowd
started checking off the 4x4 option when ordering

The OEMs then dumbed down 4x4 by increasing the complexity of the system to make
it easier. The two extra levers on the floor confused most of these folks and the
dash mounted electronic and mechanically interlocked switch was made 'standard'

Then full time because so many were driving in 4x4 on dry pavement. Many advisors
said that is okay, won't hurt a thing...they are designed for it...

REPEAT, IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, DON'T GET IT

"fashion statement crowd..."

Not so much as in order for the industry to continue building patently UNSAFE FWD vehicles they MUST add "in name ONLY" AWD, MOSTLY non-functional AWD. The only truly functional front drive based "AWD" vehicles are those equipped with the SH-AWD system.

But back to RWD vs 4WD..

Suppose roadbed conditions are such that my RWD just barely has enough traction to provide an adequate level of directional control. Now you follow along with your 4WD and end up in the ditch or hitting the stopped car in front since you do NOT have enough traction for both front leading/lagging torque AND steerage.

Repeat...if you have to ask, don't get it

It has been very bad for serious off roading when the fashion statement crowd
started checking off the 4x4 option when ordering

The OEMs then dumbed down 4x4 by increasing the complexity of the system to make
it easier. The two extra levers on the floor confused most of these folks and the
dash mounted electronic and mechanically interlocked switch was made 'standard'

Then full time because so many were driving in 4x4 on dry pavement. Many advisors
said that is okay, won't hurt a thing...they are designed for it...

REPEAT, IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, DON'T GET IT

bamafeaver wrote:
I'm looking at the new cheverolet durmax to pull my fifth wheel. Do I really need the 4WD or should I go with the 2WD. If I go with the 4WD is the mpg a big difference and does the 4WD effective the towing capacity. Thanks

You don't need 4x4. MPG difference is negligible. 4x4 does add weight. Good luck.

RedRocket204 wrote:

BillyW wrote:

wwest wrote:
Put it in 4WD, or WORSE, 4X4 (ABS/VS is disabled automatically) "apply" engine braking, the "weight" shifts frontward, you end up plowing/understeering into the car ahead.

I don't really want to distract from the actual thread, but I gotta say around the Washington/Idaho border where winters are definitely taken seriously, and where I've spent the bulk of 54 of them, I would take a a 4 wheel drive over a 2 wheel drive with ABS any time. It's much better in most situations despite the "know it alls" claiming we'll all end up in a ditch. You'll still skid on ice with ABS, in fact you'll skid straight ahead just like you said. 4 wheel drive on the other hand guides you in the desired direction very nicely. Two years ago I watched about 50% of the vehicles (from semi's to Prius') slide right off the freeway while going under 5 mph. 4/all wheel drive vehicles made of the majority of those that remained on the road. I'll grant you that understeer is a real issue with 4 wheel drive. Simply lifting from the accelerator almost always corrects it.

Or even a blip of the throttle while in 4x4 will immediately gain you traction in the event traction is lost. Understeer really should only be an issue if you are driving too fast...and yes, I do know the textbook definition of understeer.

wwest makes it sound like using 4x4 while turning will absolutely result in loss of traction on the front wheels, not true. Proper driving technique like not following close, making arcing turns, not sharp, quick turns and then staying off your brakes as best as possible(i.e. gearing down on decents) will trump nannies on cars with poor driving, 2 wheel drive or 4x4. wwest can believe what he wants. I'll take my practical experience any day as I have 0 issues even though it sounds like I should be tractionless, skidding off the road in inclimate weather all of the time.

X2, mostly to RedRocket204's statement, starting to sound like a gas vs diesel from gassers point of view.
The definition of "Understeer" is that the vehicle keeps going in the direction it was going already, not responding to the direction of the steering wheels.

Well the fact is when the steering wheels are also driving the vehicle the will go the direction that the wheels are turned, far better direction control. This all assumes that you are NOT driving too fast for the road conditions.

If you think car salesmen don't know Jack about payload, just ask them about 4X4, AWD, and Traction Control they will tell snow and ice "No Problem" you can drive right through it at speed!!!

You do not need 4wd to tow an RV.

BillyW wrote:

wwest wrote:
Put it in 4WD, or WORSE, 4X4 (ABS/VS is disabled automatically) "apply" engine braking, the "weight" shifts frontward, you end up plowing/understeering into the car ahead.

I don't really want to distract from the actual thread, but I gotta say around the Washington/Idaho border where winters are definitely taken seriously, and where I've spent the bulk of 54 of them, I would take a a 4 wheel drive over a 2 wheel drive with ABS any time. It's much better in most situations despite the "know it alls" claiming we'll all end up in a ditch. You'll still skid on ice with ABS, in fact you'll skid straight ahead just like you said. 4 wheel drive on the other hand guides you in the desired direction very nicely. Two years ago I watched about 50% of the vehicles (from semi's to Prius') slide right off the freeway while going under 5 mph. 4/all wheel drive vehicles made of the majority of those that remained on the road. I'll grant you that understeer is a real issue with 4 wheel drive. Simply lifting from the accelerator almost always corrects it.

Or even a blip of the throttle while in 4x4 will immediately gain you traction in the event traction is lost. Understeer really should only be an issue if you are driving too fast...and yes, I do know the textbook definition of understeer.

wwest makes it sound like using 4x4 while turning will absolutely result in loss of traction on the front wheels, not true. Proper driving technique like not following close, making arcing turns, not sharp, quick turns and then staying off your brakes as best as possible(i.e. gearing down on decents) will trump nannies on cars with poor driving, 2 wheel drive or 4x4. wwest can believe what he wants. I'll take my practical experience any day as I have 0 issues even though it sounds like I should be tractionless, skidding off the road in inclimate weather all of the time.

wwest wrote:
Put it in 4WD, or WORSE, 4X4 (ABS/VS is disabled automatically) "apply" engine braking, the "weight" shifts frontward, you end up plowing/understeering into the car ahead.

I don't really want to distract from the actual thread, but I gotta say around the Washington/Idaho border where winters are definitely taken seriously, and where I've spent the bulk of 54 of them, I would take a a 4 wheel drive over a 2 wheel drive with ABS any time. It's much better in most situations despite the "know it alls" claiming we'll all end up in a ditch. You'll still skid on ice with ABS, in fact you'll skid straight ahead just like you said. 4 wheel drive on the other hand guides you in the desired direction very nicely. Two years ago I watched about 50% of the vehicles (from semi's to Prius') slide right off the freeway while going under 5 mph. 4/all wheel drive vehicles made of the majority of those that remained on the road. I'll grant you that understeer is a real issue with 4 wheel drive. Simply lifting from the accelerator almost always corrects it.