Are You Buying All These Half-ton Claims?

I don't consider many of todays trucks 150/1500 250/2500 350/3500 to be 1/2 3/4 or q ton trucks. Some so called 1/2 ton trucks have 3000lb payloads. My 08 f250 has 2550lb of payload. I think I read that some so called 1tons have over 5000lbs of payload. Seems to me a new label is needed for them?. Will

Toe/tow, break/brake, loose/lose, to/too, their/there - these all make me a little nuts as knowing the difference was how I made a living for nearly a half centuryl.

But, as these eyes age I find myself making typing errors of the typo kind, with no idea how many i miss, so I'm not about to b.... and moan any more.

CKNSLS wrote:
You know Roy the one point that keeps getting brought up is "emergency maneuver" or some other such safety term. I maintain the point I made a couple of pages back that most of us in an emergency are not going to be experienced enough to come out of it in a satisfactory manner. It's just the way it is.

And you're absolutely right, not disputing that at all.

So why do we do it? Because in a non-emergency situation, I can safely tow 25,000 lbs with an F150 in 4Lo. But not if I encounter an "emergency", especially at speed.

CKNSLS wrote:
Ditto Ben. On the truck boards you get newbies all the time asking..."Can I tow this 9,000 pound trailer?" Because my manual says I can tow 9,500 pounds. There is not thought, knowledge,etc, of the word PAYLOAD. Of course, many times the trailer is already purchased because "The RV salesperson said I could tow it!"

And there're also those of us with engineering backgrounds, as well as commercial hauling experience...

I don't side with either the "weight police", or newbies who push their trucks.

All I want to see, is engineering data or justification on why something can and cannot be towed safely.

Give me chassis rigidity numbers (in N-m/deg), and not just "the one ton has a big'ol frame". Give me the rotor swept areas, and the pad coefficient with temperature. Give me the actual axle ratings from the axle manufacturer. I want to know what the real limitations are, and not marketing.

When the same SUV is rated for 7700 lbs in Europe and 5000 lbs in North America, we know the engineer is not the one making the call.

When a modern 280 hp Minivan is rated exactly the same as a late 80's Plymouth 4 cyl, we also know the engineer is not making the call.

CKNSLS wrote:
You know Roy the one point that keeps getting brought up is "emergency maneuver" or some other such safety term. I maintain the point I made a couple of pages back that most of us in an emergency are not going to be experienced enough to come out of it in a satisfactory manner. It's just the way it is.

Yup. An experienced driver who is younger and has better reflexes is going to respond more quickly than an older driver with less experience... even if that older driver has a brand new 1 ton diesel dually.

buddyIam wrote:
brulaz

Amazing, You can get into a xlt 4x4 f550 cheaper than the f 250 lariats.

yep, but the stripper f550 doesn't have all the fancy stuff the lariat f250 does.

Personally, an XLT is enough for me but I think the fancy trucks are where the manufacturers make all their $$$.

But if I had all the $$$ in the world I would get the F450 King Cab:
http://www.hannafords.ca/used/Ford/2015-Ford-F-450-fa6a44574046381207c83adb4f6e054f.htm

What I really like about the Hanna Ford web site is that they post a photo of the door jamb stickers, the yellow payload sticker in particular. That King Ranch F450 has 4864# payload. Should be enough for most of us.

IdaD wrote:
Did you buy new and what did you pay? If you don't mind sharing, anyway.

Right now in my area I could get a Ram 6.4 for around $32k and a Ram CTD for around $37k. These are basic Tradesman models, but the essentials are there - 4wd, cloth seats, AC, keyless, power windows/doors, etc. Add maybe $1000 to make it a 3500.

I doubt I could get a Tundra for much less, and I doubt a Tundra is any easier on gas than the 6.4.

I bought new in 2010 and paid $30.5 after rebates. At that time Ram didn't offer the 6.4, only the 5.7 Hemi. The 5.7 offered about 3 more HP and about the same torque. The Ram 2500 offered me about 2100 or 2200 lbs payload and a heavier chassis to move. It was about $37 or $38K for worse gas mileage (heavier truck all the time). higher fuel costs for 89 octane and only 600 or 700 lbs more capacity.

I realize that 700 lbs of capacity is a LOT... but I didn't need it at the time and don't anticipate needing it for my expected life of the Tundra. For $7000 extra dollars for capacity I never anticipated needing to use, it wasn't worth it. For a heavier chassis sitting on my asphalt driveway, causing greater wear and tear, it wasn't worth it. For a rougher ride all the time when I only expect to tow around 3000 miles a year, it wasn't worth it. For the higher fuel costs AND lower expected fuel economy, it wasn't worth it.

I've towed 2000 mile trips 3 times down to Florida with this rig now. It has been stable and solid as a rock. I don't sway, I don't get the push/pull from passing tractor trailers. I've towed up in the east coast mountains with ZERO problems. Plenty of power going up the hill, plenty of control coming down the hill.

I know that in the lifetime of this truck I will never go in the Rockies. I know what my next trailer will be. I know how I camp and I know what we bring with us. I know what my weights will be, I know what my limits are.

I have ZERO regrets about the $7000 that I saved initially, plus fuel costs and better mileage in my Tundra.

I'm sure a new Cummins 3500 dually would tow BETTER... but not dollar for dollar better.

This thread is asking about the ability of a half ton to tow the higher weights as advertised. I believe that they are perfectly safe and able to tow those weights, when properly equipped and within the ratings. The question wasn't asked if the half tons tow AS WELL as 1 tons.

You know Roy the one point that keeps getting brought up is "emergency maneuver" or some other such safety term. I maintain the point I made a couple of pages back that most of us in an emergency are not going to be experienced enough to come out of it in a satisfactory manner. It's just the way it is.

DaveF-250SD wrote:
If you are talking about payload, the modern half tons are not even in the same hemisphere as most 70's 3/4 ton trucks. I am considering purchasing a '76 F-250 Super Cab from a friend. I do not NEED a second truck, but it has character, and is calling my name. :B It is a 2 wheel drive long bed (155"wb) Camper Special, 390 4V, no A/C. the Title shows unladen weight at 4,400 lbs. GVW is 8,100 lbs. Payload would be 3,700 lbs. He is not sure if both tanks were full when he had it weighed, but one was full for sure. It has dual batteries, and front and rear stabilizer bars, as well as a factory helper leaf on the rear springs. Camper Specials also have doubled frame sections to handle increased loads, such as slide in campers. This truck's payload is approximately 2 1/2 to 3 times as much as most modern half ton trucks. Trailer tow ratings do differ a lot with the modern trucks, though. Back then, three quarter ton trucks had tow ratings around 7,500 to 8,500 lbs, and one ton dually's were rated for 10,000 lbs. towing capacity. Half ton trucks of the day normally had 6,000 lb. or lower tow ratings, but some could go as high as 7,000 when equipped with certain factory heavy duty options. A 3,000 lb. plus payload rating was the norm for a three quarter ton pickup in the 70's.

I am talking about everything BUT a simple payload rating, because by itself, it's not a good metric of safe towing ability.

Case in point - a lot of mini Asian trucks, such as Japanese Kei car trucks, have a higher payload than a 1/2 ton. Are they anywhere NEARLY as capable (600cc engine)? Not even close. All they have is one thing - a stiff set of springs.

I'm quite aware of those older pickups, and their relatively low curb weights, which gave high payloads. But the point I'm making is that current trucks have much higher standards of safety and performance than those 70's trucks ever dreamed of.

Load up the 76 F250 with 3700 lbs, and overload a modern F150 with 3700 lbs (regular cab long bed). I am willing bet the F150 can: out accelerate, out brake, and out slaloom the F250. Take those inboard mounted shock absorbers for instance, they gave very poor roll stability. Which one would you trust in an emergency manuver with a 10k trailer?

DaveF-250SD wrote:

BenK wrote:
Many times it boils down to what an OP *wants* to hear

Then they call advisors a derogatory: "The Weight Police", in order to put down
what they didn't want to hear

Many don't understand the difference between 'can do' vs 'should do'

The 'half ton' of today used to be the 3/4 or 1 ton of bygone eras. What has NOT
changed are their GVWR's

Betcha the percentages between 'half ton' vs the higher class TV's is something
like 80/20, or even higher

So the OEM demographicers are smack on target with their marketing of 'half ton'
as the main pickup/SUV offerings

Ditto the OEM marketing numbers to the public. They know that most all will NOT
read the fine print, and if do, won't understand the ramifications...so they
will normally take the MTWR as an absolute....we read that here most all the time

Well said, Ben!!!

Ditto Ben. On the truck boards you get newbies all the time asking..."Can I tow this 9,000 pound trailer?" Because my manual says I can tow 9,500 pounds. There is not thought, knowledge,etc, of the word PAYLOAD. Of course, many times the trailer is already purchased because "The RV salesperson said I could tow it!"