Batteries for AF990

After eight years and 100,000 miles of camping, my twin Trojan group 31 SCS225's finally will no longer hold a charge. I think that I got my money's worth. These are wet cell 130 AH each with double screw down terminals and they both easily fit in my battery tray. After extensive research on try to find a better battery - I'm going to order the same ones as replacements

trail-explorer wrote:
I didn't think there was enough height in the AF battery compartment for gold cart batteries with the tray in place.

05R1, did you remove the sliding battery tray?

My neighbor has a truck camper of some brand, and I see him cursing at it a few times dismantling the entire battery bank to get the batteries out to refill the water.

no, i did not have to remove the tray. the trojan AGM 31's fit perfectly

sky_free wrote:

billtex wrote:

Wet cell batteries can only withstand about a 25% discharge rate before risking permanent damage/loss of capacity. AGM batteries can easily withstand 50% discharge without damage, giving 2x useful power for like size batteries.

billtex wrote:
skyfree...not sure I understand your question...but at 60% discharge a wet cell (could be) damaged...and would certainly be at risk of losing capacity.
One of the main advantages of AGM's is they give you 2x useable power vs a wet cell.

No questions -- I was just diatribing my own thread, since I like to keep facts straight in this forum. No disrespect, but the information I dug up doesn't really match what you are saying. At a 40% Depth of Discharge, both are identical with a life of 1500 cycles. I think that level of discharge is normal for most users. At a 50% Depth of Discharge the AGM has an advantage of 1200 vs 1050 cycles, but as I said this is not really that significant since most people don't get a chance to cycle their batteries that much before they die of natural chemical processes which are present in both types. Neither is really "damaged" ... they just lose cycles.

The real plus is the zero maintenance and ability to keep AGM's in unvented spaces. No argument from me -- it's clearly advantage AGM -- at a higher price of course.

This thread has really gone off track though. In my original post I was asking what people are using in their AF TC's in regards to the battery tray since I was worried about the sturdiness of the tray and the size of batteries people are happy with. I mentioned that was looking at AGM's in that first post.

Yes...sorry to get off track...I'll close by saying even at 40% discharge the wet cell (could be) permanently damaged. That is the challenge with wet cells, they can't take a great % of discharge...and they require diligence at that.
Good luck with the AF...nice campers.

billtex wrote:

Wet cell batteries can only withstand about a 25% discharge rate before risking permanent damage/loss of capacity. AGM batteries can easily withstand 50% discharge without damage, giving 2x useful power for like size batteries.

billtex wrote:
skyfree...not sure I understand your question...but at 60% discharge a wet cell (could be) damaged...and would certainly be at risk of losing capacity.
One of the main advantages of AGM's is they give you 2x useable power vs a wet cell.

No questions -- I was just diatribing my own thread, since I like to keep facts straight in this forum. No disrespect, but the information I dug up doesn't really match what you are saying. At a 40% Depth of Discharge, both are identical with a life of 1500 cycles. I think that level of discharge is normal for most users. At a 50% Depth of Discharge the AGM has an advantage of 1200 vs 1050 cycles, but as I said this is not really that significant since most people don't get a chance to cycle their batteries that much before they die of natural chemical processes which are present in both types. Neither is really "damaged" ... they just lose cycles.

The real plus is the zero maintenance and ability to keep AGM's in unvented spaces. No argument from me -- it's clearly advantage AGM -- at a higher price of course.

This thread has really gone off track though. In my original post I was asking what people are using in their AF TC's in regards to the battery tray since I was worried about the sturdiness of the tray and the size of batteries people are happy with. I mentioned that was looking at AGM's in that first post.

Reddog1 wrote:
I have never lost a flooded wet cell battery other than lack of maintenance. The fact is, I simply have no interest in the required drama to properly maintain a battery.

I have only lost one AGM battery. It was about 6 years old, and I tested it to death in my opinion. You can only run it below 50% so many times.

I have one 100-AH AGM (room for two), 130 watts of solar, 55 amp Iota charger and a Honda 2000. I have all LED lights, and Wave3 heater. With two or three exceptions per year, I only run the Honda for the A/C or microwave.

I do zero maintenance to my AGM. I have my second AGM in 10 years. I have no clothes with holes due to battery acid. I have absolutely no intention of going back to a flooded wet cell.

Wayne

Exactly.
I never had a PROBLEM with wet cells, and was able to get 6 seasons out of a pair of Wally Worlds...but I did maintain them religiously...and I DON'T miss that.

I have never lost a flooded wet cell battery other than lack of maintenance. The fact is, I simply have no interest in the required drama to properly maintain a battery.

I have only lost one AGM battery. It was about 6 years old, and I tested it to death in my opinion. You can only run it below 50% so many times.

I have one 100-AH AGM (room for two), 130 watts of solar, 55 amp Iota charger and a Honda 2000. I have all LED lights, and Wave3 heater. With two or three exceptions per year, I only run the Honda for the A/C or microwave.

I do zero maintenance to my AGM. I have my second AGM in 10 years. I have no clothes with holes due to battery acid. I have absolutely no intention of going back to a flooded wet cell.

Wayne

skyfree...not sure I understand your question...but at 60% discharge a wet cell (could be) damaged...and would certainly be at risk of losing capacity.
One of the main advantages of AGM's is they give you 2x useable power vs a wet cell.
I'll say it again; I can't tell you how much I enjoy NOT having to maintain batteries! And that, more than anything, has been the greatest benefit of switching to AGM's.


Maybe wintersun can post a pic of his rig with solar setup and 2 batteries...sound interesting.

From these responses I was inspired to do some research into the differences between AGM and Flooded. Looking at actual lifecycle charts for Lifeline AGM vs Trojan T-105 which are 2 popular choices here:

DOD Lifeline Trojan
20% 2800 3000
30% 1800 2100
40% 1500 1500
50% 1200 1050

The AGM curve is flatter, so there is an advantage beyond 40%, but a disadvantage before it. Since we all mostly discharge to about 60% (40% DOD), I'll call it a wash. Even 1000 cycles is a LOT. Since batteries only last about 7-years tops, that would be 142 cycles per year, which is far beyond the number of days most of us use our TC's dry camping.

Wintersun was saying that Flooded have an advantage when not fully recharged, which is a different issue than DOD. I could not find any verifiable technical data supporting that claim. Post it if you've got it.

There are various advantages/disadvantages to both types and I won't go into that here. I'm leaning toward the AGM's because I will be able to seal off the battery compartment vents (in the winter only) to keep the batteries warmer. I also don't really like putting water in the inner battery since it's really impossible to get to unless I remove the outer. All this is offset by cost of course. The battery fill system looks interesting, but it's problematic for winter use since there is freezable water in the fill tube.

wintersun wrote:
The flooded lead acid heavy duty deep charge batteries will work the best and provide the most bang for your buck. AGM batteries can be used in non vented compartments and they can lay on their sides. That is there advantages, nothing more.

There are starter batteries, marine hybrid batteries, deep cycle, and heavy duty deep cycle batteries and the last type will provide the most current for a given amount of space.

Measure the available room and get the largest ones that will fit. My camper came with a group 27 battery but had enough room for a group 31 battery.

With a RV with room for 4 or more batteries there are advantages to breaking what would be a very heavy 12v battery into 2 lighter 6v batteries. With a camper with only 2 batteries this does not work as well as you need both batteries to be healthy is 6v ones or you have a problem. With two 12v batteries is one fails or a cell fails your camper's equipment still gets 12 volts.

When I added a second battery to my camper the available space meant that the second battery was going to have to lay on its side and so needed to be an AGM battery at nearly double the cost. Both needed to be the same for my solar charge controller so I ended up with two expensive AGM deep cycle batteries.

With an RV it is not unusual to have a discharge and only a partial recharge before discharging the batteries again. Flooded lead acid batteries are less likely to suffer damage from this than AGM batteries.

Not true.
Wet cell batteries can only withstand about a 25% discharge rate before risking permanent damage/loss of capacity. AGM batteries can easily withstand 50% discharge without damage, giving 2x useful power for like size batteries. AGM’s also recover (recharge) quicker.Switching to AGM’s a few years ago is one of the single best mods we ever did to our campers. I no longer have to think about my charging system…it just works.

The flooded lead acid heavy duty deep charge batteries will work the best and provide the most bang for your buck. AGM batteries can be used in non vented compartments and they can lay on their sides. That is there advantages, nothing more.

There are starter batteries, marine hybrid batteries, deep cycle, and heavy duty deep cycle batteries and the last type will provide the most current for a given amount of space.

Measure the available room and get the largest ones that will fit. My camper came with a group 27 battery but had enough room for a group 31 battery.

With a RV with room for 4 or more batteries there are advantages to breaking what would be a very heavy 12v battery into 2 lighter 6v batteries. With a camper with only 2 batteries this does not work as well as you need both batteries to be healthy is 6v ones or you have a problem. With two 12v batteries is one fails or a cell fails your camper's equipment still gets 12 volts.

When I added a second battery to my camper the available space meant that the second battery was going to have to lay on its side and so needed to be an AGM battery at nearly double the cost. Both needed to be the same for my solar charge controller so I ended up with two expensive AGM deep cycle batteries.

With an RV it is not unusual to have a discharge and only a partial recharge before discharging the batteries again. Flooded lead acid batteries are less likely to suffer damage from this than AGM batteries.