California Fire

Thats a sad sight..

That was an RV storage facility.

IT was pointed out to me by several people that this was not the correct wording to use in such a situation, especially if I had no idea where the fireman was, that the propane might have already burned from those tanks, ect.

What I should not have written:

That fireman is really stupid to stand that close to a fifth wheel, when there might be propane tanks inside it!

Yes it is a sad day when someone can not know the smoke is in the air, and get in the truck and move it a day ahead of the fire showing up.

You have to be really stupid to wait and think "I know it will not come my way" when the fire is only a mile from me, I would be gone. I would not wait for a Sherriff to stop by and say you have to evacuate now. And when it is only 5 miles away, I would be starting up the RV and moving it. I know that ash and fire can fly more than a block in a minute. With 35 MPH winds, can you expect the fire to move slower?

WHy would a fireman risk his life to put out a fire on a vehicle that is already half burned? It would be much more productive to be at a house that is not yet on fire, and protect it instead. Good thing the fireman did not die from a exploding propane tank. He needs to go back to school!

____________________________________________________________----


What might have been a better pick of words.

That fireman is going alfully close to what might be dangerous propane tanks. He is very brave, and his training will keep him from being injured.

The accident review board will say "He was a very brave man". If he survied a propane tank explosion, he would even testify "I saved a lot of RV's that day, and if I had not gone in there, one after another would have overheated the propane tanks, and the whole RV storage area would have become a melted mess of tangled wreckage"

If all the tanks vented properly, we will all know that he was not in any danger at all, because they vent at 375 PSI, well below the pressure required to explode a tank. And venting propane will not bring back memories of the Pacific war, flame throwers in all, because he was wearing a safety suit, and his training will protect him.

____________________________________________________

However in a private conversation with a person who's son is going to fire training now in another state, he suggested taking this picture to the training officer, and asking for advice on what to do if the training officer was in this situation.

That is a conversation I would like to have with my buddies at the airport fire station, where they play with diesel fuel all the time, controlled burns of about 40 gallons at a time. They have learned from others mistakes, not to get down wind, and give each other tips on how to put out the flames safely.

The fire Department will not rush into a plating plant, unprotected, like happened in Newport Beach California. Police officers trying to control traffic a mile downwind of that plating plant fire now have long term lung problems, because they did not get the proper training, or any resportary equipment. Is it a lesson we would want to train all the other officers on? You bet! We trained our people to avoid situations such as this, look at the dangers. As a fireman, he will get much closer to the burning RV's, and will be protected from the exploding tanks by his training and thick coat.

Perhaps I sould have said "This looks like a silly mistake - to be so close to the propane tanks".

Still I think a lot can be learned from this event. Perhaps they will say "you did it by the book, got in there and saved 10 rows of RV's from catching fire, the whole city might have burned down if more RV's had caught fire"

And they did interview a homeowner with a t-shirt to protect himself trying to save his home. He had a garden hose, and was spraying down the house. His thoughts might have been I want to stay to the end, and save my largest investment from burning. He might have had the same thoughts as the three that burned up in a car in Oakland in 1992, as the fire raced across the hillside, and smoke coaked the engine, the car would not move any further.

Once the power lines catch fire, there is no magic electricity that will keep the pump station working, and keep water pressure to the house water meter way up that hill. Many times after a neightborhood has caught fire, there is no water pressure for a few days. The houses that burned to the ground are leaking out lots of water onto the ground, and the pump stations are not working either. That is why it is critical to get out of the way, and not keep the fire men tied up trying to save homeowners to silly to think they can save a house with a 3/4" line that flows 25 galons a minute. The true fireman has a 2" line capable of flowing well over 300 GPM per hose.

Fred.

I would not judge why a fireman is doing anything without being there..It's a tough business...

Not sure if any of you have been part of a Southern California Santa Ana fire event...Having lived in Santa Barbara for over 40 years, I have.

Let me tell you, it all happens VERY fast. Be careful when making 'judgments' about what people did or should do or should not do.

We had about 1/2 hour to get what we could and get out...papers, mementos, the dogs, hard drive and us. Hooking up and towing an RV was not in the plan.

And...fire fighters saved our street and house at great risk to themselves.

I agree with the comment mooring product made above. "Thats a sad sight.. "

Working in law enforcement for years & being alongside firemen doing their job you begin to realize they put their lives on the line for citizens everyday. It was also dangerous for them to enter the twin towers to save people. Many of them died trying to save people. It is the nature of the job. If I'm ever in an RV that catches fire I will appreciate that firemen are there. I have the highest respect for them & the job they do.

The danger on the job on a daily basis is why safety workers in CA retire at almost full pay and we continue to hear tax payers whining about it. I tell them just step up to the plate and apply for the job if they think the benefits are so good. JMHO.

Bottom line, what citizens think is extremely dangerous is what they do on a daily basis.

Sorry,

But I spent to much time working for a city, and in risk assesment, though not working for the Fire Department. We did have to review each "Accident" and see if there was a way to prevent it from happening twice to a second person.

If there is a accident, and we did not learn from it, and someone else repeated the same accident, what good was all our training?

So do we rush into the fire, and not consider the risks? They still need to stay away from the propane tanks when the vehicle is on fire.

A retired sherriff officer that I know, watched her camper burn to the ground, while she and the firemen watched, the bullets in her RV where burning and rounds going off. The camper is replaceable, but not the Fireman. Her camper is a total loss, so are the vehicles in this picture. Why risk being so close to a propane tank, that is very hot.

Yes I do hope that they could have saved the home near this camper, but out of the shot. Yet still the risk manager would probably recommend something else than being so close to a propane tank that is engulfed in flames.

So yes I do stand by the comments that the fireman should not be in that location, that close to the propane tanks.

Yes I have had the pleasure to meet some very brave firemen, even one that walked up to a burning airplane, and got out the passengers. Of course he had on better gear than this guy has, and got away safely. Airport fire stations have better fire jackets, because they are expected to rush into a plane with burning diesel fuel, and take on that risk with better equipment.

Fred.

Remember, when we are running from danger, the military, firemen, law enforcement etc. are running into that same danger we left!

I thank them! :B

Amazing - a picture is worth a 1000 words, and apparently 10,000 armchair quarterback assumptions!! (and you know what they say about assumptions)

This is a storage facility, so some of these owners are not even in town to try and hook up their RVs to move them.

This facility was near the start of the fire, and fires here move VERY quickly driven by 35mph winds with single digit humidity. The first indication these owners probably had was watching their rigs burn down on the morning news, if they were up that early. Fire started before 7am.

Not all the RVs at this facility burned, about half of them were saved, due to a bit of luck and the firefighters efforts.

Why were they not saving homes? Because this facility was one of the first things to go, and at that time the fire was not completely out of control and threatening communities.

It is a sad sight to see anyone lose something they have worked for. These people and everyone impacted by the fire will be in my prayers.

HVAC from the picture how do you know the tanks didn't already go off? do you know the storage facility rules on full vs empty tanks? Do you see where he is flowing water, it's not on the RV's perhaps he is protecting and exposure that is out of frame. We do our job out West very well. That fire started at 9 am and blew up to 7000 acres by evening driven by 50 mph winds, its over 10,000 acres. Nobody died or was injured, 15 homes had minor damage none were burned.
info http://fire.countyofventura.org/

I'm sure you did your job very well. the 925 fire fighters on the line are doing theirs very well too.