Camping well below freezing - Sweden over winter

^ Well that's not as cold as I imagined, so I stand corrected, but I'm with Bumpy. Swedens nps doesn't have lodging? Maybe there folks are just looking for an adventure!
If it included unlimited snowmachining for free I'd do it!!

I found an official weather station near Abisko (42 kms distant). Since the past 13 months, the coldest it has gotten over winter was -26.3C (Jan 20th). It was actually above 0C for the first ~week of January during the day-time. It also went above 0C one day (early February), and again for appx 3 days the 3rd week of February. There were 3 distinct cold waves during january of this year lasting ~10 days, then ~4 days; then 6 days (a cold snap for me is when temps dip below -16C). In February, there were a few sharply cold days (4 of them) that went down to -16C to -22C, but only for ~1 day each. In March, there one last "gasp" of winter at the beginning of the 3rd week, where temps dipped to -18C to -23C for ~4 days. The really cold months in this region is from beginning of December to end of April. So, 5 months of quite cold weather.

The winds are in the 4.9 to 6.0 meters/second range average over 5 cold months; with possible gusts to 19.5 meters/second (9 ish MPH on average, up to 43 miles per hour-ish gusts)

Interesting thread! I have not been in extreme cold.

I am curious about heating. Since the person has "electric" at the campsite, what about electric heat? Everyone keeps talking about propane heaters. Put an electric heater somewhere in the camper. I figure electric heaters don't put out as much BTUs as a propane forced air heater, but would they be able to keep the camper at least livable (well, survivable)?

I'm sort of surprised that some business would hire people to work in that kind of conditions and not provide some type of housing?
bumpy

These are some mighty cold knowing answers to cold weather living in a TC in the above, especially the use of block foam insulation as an extra blanket strapped around and under the the base. The Swedish TC looks like it's built for the circumstances in which they find themselves. i'm certainly no expert like the folks above who have responded, but I can add what I wish we had done, or had along on some of our 'cold' TC outings. Early on, and count this as a cautionary tale, the coldest we've ever camped in was 05 deg. F. Without any winterization and we found out the hard way that the first thing to freeze up was the black tank outflow. Without the outflow, sooner or later you are stuck. Without heated tanks decide whether you are going to go:
1. Wet
2. half-wet or half-dry, take your pick
3. dry.
Without heated tanks our response has been to drain the entire water system, drink and cook with bottled water and flush the toilet with straight 100% RV antifreeze (good down to minus 40F). We have done this and it works well.....for a short while. After about a week of measuring out a tiny amount of RV antifreeze, we with our tiny tanks were done.
The only woe here is there is an expiration date certain on how many antifreeze flushes you can do without a blackwater dump of some kind. And as above, what to do if your outflow freezes.
Another thing is to take many extra bottles of propane along to plug into the system as the winter progresses.
The bottom line, as i see it is: how high is your cold pain threshold? My ancestory are a lot of Finns, and I have a high pain threshold to cold, but the cushy American lifestyle; getting older and small range of comfort level has done me in. I don't care how well insulated your camper is, if you run out of fuel for heat the temperature drops regardless. jefe

Crosscheck wrote:
Now just don't try and do this in Winterpeg which is not that far from the US border.

...hah hah LOL :B True!

....the further one is from the oceans and giant ocean circulation belt arriving from southern latitudes, flowing in the direction of the north ocean regions (Europe or North America), the colder the winters will be. This is why Manitoba, Saskatchewan, North Dakota, Minnesota and parts of Ontario and Quebec are so brutally cold in winter. Look at the latitude of BC (coastal) and Nova Scotia, and compare that to the latitude of Winnipeg. Now check those places for average temperature over winter...southern BC is about 360 kilometers north of Montreal, but Montreal has winter temperatures comparing with southern Siberia, and southern BC coastal (even inland as far a Osoyoos) located much further north of Montreal has January/February winter temperatures comparable to Montreal in early May. This is also why England isn't a frozen wasteland over winter: the tropical ocean currents envelope England during winter even though the latitude of say London is about the same as the frozen barren James Bay, Quebec region, where temperatures are in the -50 to (sometimes but rarely -65C) range for a chunk of the winter.

If the tropical oceanic Atlantic belt ever deviated, the British Isles would probably have to be abandoned during winter; it would be virtually unlivable there.

Wow. That is a pretty impressive camper, and quite well built to use in extreme cold conditions. This reminds me of the old Bigfoot campers, built for use in the Canadian north.

As suggested earlier, propping up the "tub" for winter would be good.

The only thing I would add to my earlier post, is the following:

-since camper will be used/stored off truck, pre cut 2 inch thick pieces of XPS polystyrene closed-cell foam insulation to encapsulate the camper's tub and under-wing areas. Store the pre-cut foam in the camper and assemble it at site, using 2-inch wide house envelope tape (I used this stuff when I stored our camper outside over winter for the 1st and only time; the tape held up under persistent -36C and 90 KPH winds), XPS friendly adhesive, and a belt (a ratchet tie-down around perimeter of insulation-clad tub, for safety). This would add a fantastic barrier against ground radiated cold, and frost advection (the coldest air is closest to the ground, so the camper tub, being off truck, should have extreme insulation there). In spring, just remove and store foam for future use. Measuring and cutting the XPS should take only an hour or so; assembly should be really fast, too, with 2 people working at it.

As Joerg mentions, keeping the propane from freezing will be the biggest hurdle. The large propane cylinders would need their own insulated containment.

Btw, the german importer nordstar.de says it will comfortably work down to -35 C:

http://nordstar.de/warum-nordstar/die-isolierung/index.html
(link in german)

Hi Steve,
the Skarosser / Nordstar campers are surely some of the best for cold weather.
Living in the camper off the truck for an extended time, the camper should be supported under the floor so the weight doesn't all rest on the jacks.

The front jacks on these campers are prone to develop leaks and, subsequently, rot. Maybe not in these cold temperatures ... but I imagine many freeze /thaw cycles would not be beneficial.

My main concern would be to keep the propane system running at all times, and to have access to sufficiently warm propane throughout. I guess once something freezes, it will be near impossible to get it running again until everything has warmed up. Says the guy who was without heat in zero celsius because of a frozen (non gaseous) butane bottle. Lesson learned there.

If the heater goes out, your friend will be very very cold very quickly - they need to have a plan for that.

The Skarosser may have the Alde liquid/water heater. I don't know how far the antifreeze in there goes, but I would clarify beforehand.

I am not sure if it will work, but I have no personal experience with that sort of cold. Someone from our german forum took one of these up to sweden over winter a couple of years ago and they ended up in a fixed building. But I know no details.

Just checked weather base for the average Jan temps for the closest town to Abisko National Park,which is -8C-14C with the lowest recorded low= -32C. So I guessed that the big Manitoba city of Winterpeg which at a guess is 1400miles south of Abisko NP, had lower average January temps, -12C-21C and I think I nailed it.

Don't know what all this has to do with the folks who plan on working over the winter in Northern Sweden but it looks more doable staying in their TC after what sabconsulting has stated are their plans for living in their TC over the winter. No folks, they are not going to die. Sounds like they have lots of services and infrastructure to lean on while they are "camping"

Now just don't try and do this in Winterpeg which is not that far from the US border.

Dave