Chevrolet exits all ICE production by 2035

Gjac wrote:

tomman58 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
The real question for me is an EV really cost effective when compared to an ICE or hybrid type vehicle. It is hard to cut through the marketing hyperbole on some of the EV web sites. I will probably give my 2009 CRV to my GS so I am looking for another car anyways and started looking at the some of these EV's. I tried to compare an EV to my current RAV4 Hybrid and this is my logic. I live in CT and my total cost per KWH is 27 cents( 9 cents to generate and 18 cents for delivery costs). Most EV's I looked would use 30 KWH's to go 100 miles. At 27 cents/KWH X 30 KWH's= $8.1 to travel 100 miles. My 2019 RAV4 averages 40MPGs so 100 miles/ 40 MPG's=2.5 gals x $2.00/gal = $5.00. If gas goes to $3/gal and it will that would be $7.50. At $4/gal = $10 to travel 100 miles. So to me the equivalent cost is about $3.40/gal. Not factored in is Ct uses mostly oil to generate electric so the electric cost will go up as the price of oil just not as fast as gas. This does not include all the other stuff others have mentioned such as higher initial cost of the vehicle, etc. Bottom line EV's don't make sense to me unless gas prices exceed $4/gal. Am I missing something in my math?

Here in Michigan, I have a separate meter and rate for the electric car which helps. Also when we got our Volt a few years ago they gave us a credit on the lease of the car and a free charging station from Uncle Sam.

They gave you a free charging station at your home? Or did you have to drive to the Chevy dealer to charge it for free?

Not speaking for Tomman. But all EV’s come with a charging device. Some are basic and only plug into 120 volts while others plug into either 120 or 240 volt. What I think Tomman is referring to is some governments have programs where they will partially or totally pay for a secondary charge station they can install at home and keep the other one in the trunk.

And yes, EV dealers usually have free charge stations at the dealership...which almost no one uses...because they are at the dealership. :). Having said that, there is one at a Nissan dealer next to the local A&W that we sometimes use. :). Generally the free stations are at restaurants or casinos or hotels. You drop 30 bucks on lunch and they give you 60 cents worth of power. :). Lol. What a deal.

tomman58 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
The real question for me is an EV really cost effective when compared to an ICE or hybrid type vehicle. It is hard to cut through the marketing hyperbole on some of the EV web sites. I will probably give my 2009 CRV to my GS so I am looking for another car anyways and started looking at the some of these EV's. I tried to compare an EV to my current RAV4 Hybrid and this is my logic. I live in CT and my total cost per KWH is 27 cents( 9 cents to generate and 18 cents for delivery costs). Most EV's I looked would use 30 KWH's to go 100 miles. At 27 cents/KWH X 30 KWH's= $8.1 to travel 100 miles. My 2019 RAV4 averages 40MPGs so 100 miles/ 40 MPG's=2.5 gals x $2.00/gal = $5.00. If gas goes to $3/gal and it will that would be $7.50. At $4/gal = $10 to travel 100 miles. So to me the equivalent cost is about $3.40/gal. Not factored in is Ct uses mostly oil to generate electric so the electric cost will go up as the price of oil just not as fast as gas. This does not include all the other stuff others have mentioned such as higher initial cost of the vehicle, etc. Bottom line EV's don't make sense to me unless gas prices exceed $4/gal. Am I missing something in my math?

Here in Michigan, I have a separate meter and rate for the electric car which helps. Also when we got our Volt a few years ago they gave us a credit on the lease of the car and a free charging station from Uncle Sam.

They gave you a free charging station at your home? Or did you have to drive to the Chevy dealer to charge it for free?

Gjac wrote:
The real question for me is an EV really cost effective when compared to an ICE or hybrid type vehicle. It is hard to cut through the marketing hyperbole on some of the EV web sites. I will probably give my 2009 CRV to my GS so I am looking for another car anyways and started looking at the some of these EV's. I tried to compare an EV to my current RAV4 Hybrid and this is my logic. I live in CT and my total cost per KWH is 27 cents( 9 cents to generate and 18 cents for delivery costs). Most EV's I looked would use 30 KWH's to go 100 miles. At 27 cents/KWH X 30 KWH's= $8.1 to travel 100 miles. My 2019 RAV4 averages 40MPGs so 100 miles/ 40 MPG's=2.5 gals x $2.00/gal = $5.00. If gas goes to $3/gal and it will that would be $7.50. At $4/gal = $10 to travel 100 miles. So to me the equivalent cost is about $3.40/gal. Not factored in is Ct uses mostly oil to generate electric so the electric cost will go up as the price of oil just not as fast as gas. This does not include all the other stuff others have mentioned such as higher initial cost of the vehicle, etc. Bottom line EV's don't make sense to me unless gas prices exceed $4/gal. Am I missing something in my math?

Here in Michigan, I have a separate meter and rate for the electric car which helps. Also when we got our Volt a few years ago they gave us a credit on the lease of the car and a free charging station from Uncle Sam.

20% generated by coal is significant. I can see two coal burning generators out my doorwall. The coal is delivered by ships, that use heavy fuel oil with high sulpher levels. The coal is moved by large dozers.

Using my Bolt EV is not for clean environment. It was about price per mile.

Gator398 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing. This is not about AOC or the new green deal. Tesla has shown that EV's are for real and that the ICE is obsolete.
EV's have left the drawing board and are in full production as we speak.
The idea that we can't produce enough electric is silly.
When the model T was originally made did we say this would never work because there were no gas stations?
We have made it from the stage coach to jumbo jets the infrastructure will come.
Going from gas stations to charging stations is not an impossible task.
If you want to believe EV's are for real. Drive a Tesla.
Driving a Tesla for the first time is a game changing experience.
Once you drive a Tesla you will understand where all this is going and why the ICE is obsolete.

The problem you are not seeing, is that the infrastructure you speak of that brought us to "Jumbo Jets" was the discovery of OIL.. ELECTRICITY is produced by OIL and COAL and Nuclear (that creates Massively Hazardous Waste that stays Massively Hazardous for 1000+ years)

So, unless these enviro-nuts are willing to triple the production of OIL, COAL, and Nuclear power, there is not enough power to charge EV if EV shifts from 2% it is currently to 90% that is dreamed of...

It is common freakin sense, not enough power PERIOD

Hmmm. This might be a US centric point of view. I get that there are problems in the US. The US posters on this board continually describe the US grid as a third world affair with little chance of it ever being modified or upgraded because of some kind of geo-political issue. And that might be the case, but the US is only a small part of the EV market in the world. Most countries are not not predicting major difficulties with adapting to the somewhat small power increase needed to charge personal light vehicles like cars and trucks. BC Hydro addresses this on their website with estimates of about a 19 percent increase in power required to accommodate a 100 percent electric fleet of personal cars and light trucks.

Also, I don't think oil or coal is a big supplier of electricity in North America. Certainly natural gas is, nuclear and hydro as well, but coal is playing less and less of a role, under 8 percent in Canada and I think somewhere around 18 percent in the US. I doubt it will be much of a player in 10 years in North America.

The US will probably have some manufacturers that still build gas vehicles in 20 years but they will have a small market and virtually no export market as much of the rest of the world will have moved on. I don't pretend to understand what is happening in the US but listening to all the American posters it sounds like they have some challenges in front of them. Wishing them well and hope they find a solution to whatever the problem is.

This is an old figure as I think BC is closer to about 3 or4 percent EV now. I know in 2019 9 percent of all new vehicles sold in BC were electric. 2020 numbers aren't in yet and COVID probably knocked things down a bit but there are a lot of EV's on the road here now...and a lot more every day. Once EV light trucks hit the market next year it will go nuts. But we have good charge infrastructure here and it is also going rapidly. The provincial utility BC hydro is playing a big role in that. They are doing a good job.

Lantley wrote:
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing. This is not about AOC or the new green deal. Tesla has shown that EV's are for real and that the ICE is obsolete.
EV's have left the drawing board and are in full production as we speak.
The idea that we can't produce enough electric is silly.
When the model T was originally made did we say this would never work because there were no gas stations?
We have made it from the stage coach to jumbo jets the infrastructure will come.
Going from gas stations to charging stations is not an impossible task.
If you want to believe EV's are for real. Drive a Tesla.
Driving a Tesla for the first time is a game changing experience.
Once you drive a Tesla you will understand where all this is going and why the ICE is obsolete.

The problem you are not seeing, is that the infrastructure you speak of that brought us to "Jumbo Jets" was the discovery of OIL.. ELECTRICITY is produced by OIL and COAL and Nuclear (that creates Massively Hazardous Waste that stays Massively Hazardous for 1000+ years)

So, unless these enviro-nuts are willing to triple the production of OIL, COAL, and Nuclear power, there is not enough power to charge EV if EV shifts from 2% it is currently to 90% that is dreamed of...

It is common freakin sense, not enough power PERIOD

rlw999 wrote:

Gjac wrote:

rlw999 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
I could of replaced my older metal key for 75 cents, not cool.

My Honda in college had a metal key. It was super convenient because it also worked in my roommate's similar year Honda, and it also worked in his girlfriend's Honda, but only to start the car, it wouldn't open the doors.

Despite the convenience, it probably wasn't all that secure.

Beside the replacement cost what do you do with the fob when you want to swim, fish a stream, free dive or scuba from the shore all of which I like to do. The low tech metal key I could just keep in my pocket and it did not mind getting wet. I have slipped on rocks in a stream and gotten wet many times.

If I think I'll get somewhat wet, I just put it in a ziplock baggy in my pocket. When I go snorkeling, I put it in the plastic underwater cover with my cell phone (which itself is a glorified ziplock baggy). I rarely go anywhere without my cell phone, so having to handle a keyfob isn't much different (and if I had the right car, I could just use my phone as the key).

Or you can buy a purpose built keyfob drybag.

I can start my car with the phone also but I just don't like the idea of putting my phone and key fob in a baggy and taking it very deep when scuba diving or needing to buy a underwater housing for it. I did not mean to get off topic with the key fob it was just an example of hi tech stuff I could do without.

I still have a car with one of those 75cent metal keys; I wouldn’t let someone get into it still wet from swimming. A wet swimmer can ride in one of our cars that uses a fob.

I leave my key fob in the truck then lock the truck. When I get done swimming I open the truck with the keypad on the door and away I go.

Gjac wrote:

rlw999 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
I could of replaced my older metal key for 75 cents, not cool.

My Honda in college had a metal key. It was super convenient because it also worked in my roommate's similar year Honda, and it also worked in his girlfriend's Honda, but only to start the car, it wouldn't open the doors.

Despite the convenience, it probably wasn't all that secure.

Beside the replacement cost what do you do with the fob when you want to swim, fish a stream, free dive or scuba from the shore all of which I like to do. The low tech metal key I could just keep in my pocket and it did not mind getting wet. I have slipped on rocks in a stream and gotten wet many times.

If I think I'll get somewhat wet, I just put it in a ziplock baggy in my pocket. When I go snorkeling, I put it in the plastic underwater cover with my cell phone (which itself is a glorified ziplock baggy). I rarely go anywhere without my cell phone, so having to handle a keyfob isn't much different (and if I had the right car, I could just use my phone as the key).

Or you can buy a purpose built keyfob drybag.