Cleaning an epdm roof

John,

As I said if one is to do any routine maintenance on an EDPM roof then your 4x a year especially using the 303 is IMO probably the one that I will concede is probably the best you can do and will actually extend the life of an EDPM roof. IIRC an application of 303 lasts on the order of 1 to 3 months so at 4x a year you are IMO getting 95% of the benefit of using that and even simply slapping in over even a dirty EDPM roof might be just as effective as cleaning it first and then applying 303, but we won't really know and in the end it's not that important since what you do I readily admit works and I can see why. However, you IMO are the exception to the rule on maintaining an RV in general and your roof maintenance just further demonstrates that and 99% of the folks out there would not do what you have done, nor keep their RV long enough to actually see any end benefit. Of course we can't really tell, but even the roof with all those spider cracks while looking bad are still IMO full serviceable and might last another 10 to 15 years before the membrane would actually need to be replaced and getting 15 to 25 years service out of an EDPM roof should satisify any normal persons expectations and/or requirements. I haven't actually done it, but it would not surprise me if you use upwards of 1 1/2 gal of 303 a year doing an application 4 times per year and at $50/gal over 10 years thats close to $750 in 303 alone which is almost the cost of a new membrane less installation where all the roof replacement cost is admittedly.

Larry

Leave it alone...just like the roof on your home.

Do you EVER see commercial rubber roofs of any kind, being cleaned?

I grew up in a home with two rubber roof's over a front and back "breeze way". Did anyone ever clean them? LOL. Of course not. And both rubber roofs lasted LONGER than the asphalt shingles did, twice in my life time.

Just inspect sealant around components and roof edges...that's about it.

LarryJM wrote:


I'm a big believer in 303 and use it extensively and buy it by the gallon and IMO it is the ONE ITEM worth using to extend anything made of rubber or plastic that lives outside. The one biggest drawback is that it doesn't last very long and would agree with you that if you expend the time, effort and $$$ to simply apply it 4 times a year that will extend and preserve an EDPM roof significantly.

I still would not clean it, but can't disagree too much with your apparantly very reasonable cleaning and 303 application. Question is the time and effort one has to spend performing such a dedicated and frequent maintenance plan. I doubt there is more than maybe 1 in 20 that do what you do 4X a year and if the interval is extended to say 6 or 9 months then I still think one can do more harm than good trying to extend the life of an EDPM roof by cleaning it.

However simply dumping 303 even on a dirty roof can't hurt it either, but unless you do it like you do 4x or more a year I question how much longer an EDPM roof will actually last over one not maintained. Looks like the spider web cracking I'm not so sure how significant that is to the overall life of the roof. Maybe it only lasts 15 vice 20+ years I'm not sure.

My roof is not 11 years old (built in June of 2006) and I have cleaned it ONCE back in the spring of 2008 just prior to my massive Eternabonding extravaganza and it is not showing the type of issues your 2003 unit is and mine has live outside 24/7 in the NoVa weather (just outside of D.C.) that entire time except for the year or so it has been on the road, mostly to Florida/Mississippi.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Let's compare notes. I remember well when you started your Eternabonding extravaganza on your new camper. You inspired me! I did my entire roof with the exception of 2 tank vent covers in 2010 and I'm really glad I did. I just could not trust the caulking from not developing a leak over the winter and the E bond did the trick. But there is a learning from this too. I'm open minded to listen and learn, but see here what I have found and let's compare to what you have found.

I'll try to show this in pics across several campers I have worked on over the last 2 years and where I can drawing my conclusions from.

First here is my current camper. As I said, it was born in Nov 2003 and it lived outside until August 2013 when the new barn came. I have been washing the dirt with Tide and doing a demold process approx every 3 to 4 years as needed. Each cleaning is followed by a 303 UV treatment. Cleaning has been 3 to 4 times a year up until Aug 2013. Now that it inside whenever we are not camping, I have cut back to 2 to 3 times a year on the cleaning and 303 treatment.

Here is a total roof shot. This is now close to 14 years old.


The rubber surface is still smooth. There are no spider cracks or crystallization looks.

And more amazing, this vent cap has the original 2003 Dicor on it at on the original bottom seal to main roof. The upper application was from me along the way when small splits had just stated over the screws. I do not recall what year I added that Dicor on top. The point I'm showing here is the 303 UV treatment is the only explanation I have for why that Dicor is that good. That and the washing/demolding maybe?


Now lets change to a camper I just repaired for a friend. She bought this 2005 camper this spring and it has 2 roof area leaks. One front left corner and one rear right corner. This roof has had almost no care for it. No cleaning and for sure no 303 UV treatment. The rubber white layer has spider cracks and a crystallization in it. I can't seem to get a good closeup to show this.

Here is what I started with. The rear right leak area


The front left leak area


The lack of roof maintenance really shows up on this camper. The caulking is in real bad shape. Splits and cracks in a lot of places that are deep. A classic of what happens when you do not do roof maintenance.

Here is a close up of the rubber and the Dicor on the gutter area. The pics does not show the spider cracks and the crystallization that I can see by eye.


Here is an attempt to show the spidering/crystallization


a close up zoomed in


After I repaired the front leak, and the back wall and 2 sides and the back of the roof, I went to washing the roof before the final caulking. I needed to redo almost all the caulking. After washing I saw that I needed to peel up much of the Dicor as the cracks in the caulk was too far advanced.

The dirt was embedded into the rubber. The mold was bad too and I do not know if it contributed to the holding the dirt into the rubber. To me, this is roof abuse from lack of proper maintenance. While the rubber is not leaking, I'll show here in a moment deterioration of the white layer.

Here I am on the first Tide treatment cleaning on the main roof. The edges you see white as from the repair process and a chemical clean before putting down new butyl


The brush just about stalled trying to push it. It was like washing 80 to 100 grit sand paper. I had to do the tide treatment twice, then I had to do 2, demolding steps to get the roof back to clean. Then I 303 UV treated it after the final caulking. Here it is with the final caulking and ready to leave my place. It took me 3.5 hours non stop to get it to this point in cleaning alone.




You can still see some staining lines, but they are not concerning me as they are discolored and not dirt.

Here are a few pics that really shocked me. It is the loss of the white layer. I can measure it. The entire exposed roof has lost a good percentage of the white layer. This is before I washed it and remember this roof has not been washed very much if ever. The nice white strip is the main roof that was under the rear seam molding. The molding protected the white layer from the sun and the dirt.

See here


A close up. You can see the spider cracks


Now measuring it. There is a small amount of error in measuring rubber but this gives us the big picture.

0.012" loss


0.018" loss


0.028" loss


We have between 0.012 to 0.028" loss range. It is not even loss. This loss did not come from washing the roof. It came from deterioration of being exposed to the conditions.

Here is another friend of mine camper that just bought a 10 year old camper and the roof has been neglected. Very little to no washing and no prior caulking other then what the dealer did a month ago before he bought it


And his spidering. He lives in VA. You can see the black rubber at the bottom of the cracking after he washed the roof.


I have 2 more campers I can show which have the same spidering and crystallization. My 2004 project camper and my son's 2006 camper. On my son's we replaced the entire roof membrane. On my 2004 project camper, I am in the process of repair and will replace the entire membrane.

Point I'm making in this, my current camper is 14 year old and the roof is smooth, clean and no crystallization. The roof is washed and UV treated. There are 4 others of the same EPDM brand and build that are newer and have had the roof washed very little if ever and odds are high, never saw 303 UV treatment. The results are very different. From this, I'm from the thought process, cleaning the dirt, keeping he mold in check and 303 UV treatment is a good thing.

Thoughts? What did I miss that tells me leaving the roof uncleaned and un UV treated is OK to do?

Thanks

John

JBarca wrote:

ScottG wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

nextlevel wrote:
Good morning everyone. I am having trouble getting my epdm roof clean. I bought this 2011 Puma back in July and I don't think the previous owner ever cleaned the roof. I am presently using Lucas #115 as a cleaner but after cleaning I can still rub my hand across the rubber and white stuff comes off. Any advice?

Yea LEAVE IT ALONE ... that white stuff is the normal deterioration of the protective layer which helps provide more protection as a somewhat sacrificial layer if left alone. By trying to remove it which BTW is going to be virtually impossible you are IMO actually SHORTENING THE LIFE of your roof.

LEAVE YOUR ROOF ALONE and GO CAMPING:B:W

Larry

X2,
Your roof never "needs" to be cleaned except for your own asthetic reasons. The more you clean it the more you remove that protective white coating. It does nothing healthy for the roof to clean it.
The best thing you can do is inspect the caulking and otherwise leave it alone.

Hi, trying to learn about how you came to learning this.

I'm not following this thought process. Have you found a manufacture of a rubber roof membrane that has stated to not "clean" the roof? If so, please link their instructions that state this. May learn something new from it.

Dicor is who made my EPDM roof. Read all of it including the UV protectent at the end. This is their recommendation. Dicor EPDM Rubber Roofing Care

My camper was built in Nov. 2003 and is close to being 14 years old. For the first 10 years, the camper lived outside 365 days a year in Central Ohio through snowing winters. It now lives in a pole barn since 2013.

I wash the roof with Tide laundry detergent to get the dirt off. Once dry, I apply 303 UV protectant to the rubber and all plastic or Dicor caulking on the roof. This process is done 3 to 4 times a year. Once always before winter and once always comeing out of winter and a time or 2 in the warmer weather.

Due to my area, mold grows quickly. About every 3 to 4 years I need to do a mold removal on the roof to keep it in check. The Tide cuts the dirt but not the mold. The Dicor instructions tell how to do this that I linked above.

My roof today is still in perfect shape. There is very little deterioration of the white layer and there are no fine or large cracks in the rubber membrane white layer.

I also acquired a project camper this spring. It was built in Oct 2003. It is only 1 month older then my current camper in my sig. It is the same brand I have now, but it had a leak, a bad one. I am rebuilding it. This roof never had any attention to it. The Dicor caulking is toast, the rubber is toast, the dirt is deeply embedded into the rubber and spider cracks exist in the rubber membrane white layer. Everything plastic on the roof is shot. This camper lived 3.5 hours from where I have had mine stored outside. Same state, with very similar winter conditions as well as moist spring and summer as well as the years the roof has been on.

The difference between the 2 campers roofs is dramatic. One has been taken care of, the other not. The outcome is very different. Granted this is for living in Central Ohio. Other states may produce a different outcome. I'm sure AZ, FL and TX will be different then a northern state.

The more I help others with a 10 plus year old rubber roof camper where the prior owner did nothing for the roof, the outcome is not good. The rubber itself is cracked in the white layer like it was a piece of glass with fine and large lines going all over. The more I learn about how bad a neglected roof turns out in 10 years, the more I am convinced that using 303 UV protectant on the rubber and the caulking makes a significant difference in the lasting of the roof system. Proper cleaning is also part of this. The caulking is still a weak link in this roof system but even the Dicor will benefit from the added UV protection. In 2010 I did a full Eternabond treatment
to deal with the caulking splits that come over the winter.

I never would of known how much my care regiment on the EPDM roof has helped until I have had to help several others repair their failing 10 year old roof system. That and the project camper I acquired this spring.

My vote, care for the rubber roof like your manufacture states and consider a UV protectant.

Hope this helps

John

I'm a big believer in 303 and use it extensively and buy it by the gallon and IMO it is the ONE ITEM worth using to extend anything made of rubber or plastic that lives outside. The one biggest drawback is that it doesn't last very long and would agree with you that if you expend the time, effort and $$$ to simply apply it 4 times a year that will extend and preserve an EDPM roof significantly. I still would not clean it, but can't disagree too much with your apparantly very reasonable cleaning and 303 application. Question is the time and effort one has to spend performing such a dedicated and frequent maintenance plan. I doubt there is more than maybe 1 in 20 that do what you do 4X a year and if the interval is extended to say 6 or 9 months then I still think one can do more harm than good trying to extend the life of an EDPM roof by cleaning it. However simply dumping 303 even on a dirty roof can't hurt it either, but unless you do it like you do 4x or more a year I question how much longer an EDPM roof will actually last over one not maintained. Looks like the spider web cracking I'm not so sure how significant that is to the overall life of the roof. Maybe it only lasts 15 vice 20+ years I'm not sure.

My roof is not 11 years old (built in June of 2006) and I have cleaned it ONCE back in the spring of 2008 just prior to my massive Eternabonding extravaganza and it is not showing the type of issues your 2003 unit is and mine has live outside 24/7 in the NoVa weather (just outside of D.C.) that entire time except for the year or so it has been on the road, mostly to Florida/Mississippi.

Larry

Thanks again for all of the advice. I did check with the manufacture of the epdm roof and they said to clean it and put a coat of sealer on it. I have cleaned it and I do have a protective sealer to apply. May do that this weekend.

I have to wash my roof every year, and document it, or it violates my warranty. So, in January I gotta get up there and wash it and document it with receipts. It's an easy job. Much easier than the roof repairs on the old motorhome, that I had to do many times in the years we owned it.

ScottG wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

nextlevel wrote:
Good morning everyone. I am having trouble getting my epdm roof clean. I bought this 2011 Puma back in July and I don't think the previous owner ever cleaned the roof. I am presently using Lucas #115 as a cleaner but after cleaning I can still rub my hand across the rubber and white stuff comes off. Any advice?

Yea LEAVE IT ALONE ... that white stuff is the normal deterioration of the protective layer which helps provide more protection as a somewhat sacrificial layer if left alone. By trying to remove it which BTW is going to be virtually impossible you are IMO actually SHORTENING THE LIFE of your roof.

LEAVE YOUR ROOF ALONE and GO CAMPING:B:W

Larry

X2,
Your roof never "needs" to be cleaned except for your own asthetic reasons. The more you clean it the more you remove that protective white coating. It does nothing healthy for the roof to clean it.
The best thing you can do is inspect the caulking and otherwise leave it alone.

Hi, trying to learn about how you came to learning this.

I'm not following this thought process. Have you found a manufacture of a rubber roof membrane that has stated to not "clean" the roof? If so, please link their instructions that state this. May learn something new from it.

Dicor is who made my EPDM roof. Read all of it including the UV protectent at the end. This is their recommendation. Dicor EPDM Rubber Roofing Care

My camper was built in Nov. 2003 and is close to being 14 years old. For the first 10 years, the camper lived outside 365 days a year in Central Ohio through snowing winters. It now lives in a pole barn since 2013.

I wash the roof with Tide laundry detergent to get the dirt off. Once dry, I apply 303 UV protectant to the rubber and all plastic or Dicor caulking on the roof. This process is done 3 to 4 times a year. Once always before winter and once always comeing out of winter and a time or 2 in the warmer weather.

Due to my area, mold grows quickly. About every 3 to 4 years I need to do a mold removal on the roof to keep it in check. The Tide cuts the dirt but not the mold. The Dicor instructions tell how to do this that I linked above.

My roof today is still in perfect shape. There is very little deterioration of the white layer and there are no fine or large cracks in the rubber membrane white layer.

I also acquired a project camper this spring. It was built in Oct 2003. It is only 1 month older then my current camper in my sig. It is the same brand I have now, but it had a leak, a bad one. I am rebuilding it. This roof never had any attention to it. The Dicor caulking is toast, the rubber is toast, the dirt is deeply embedded into the rubber and spider cracks exist in the rubber membrane white layer. Everything plastic on the roof is shot. This camper lived 3.5 hours from where I have had mine stored outside. Same state, with very similar winter conditions as well as moist spring and summer as well as the years the roof has been on.

The difference between the 2 campers roofs is dramatic. One has been taken care of, the other not. The outcome is very different. Granted this is for living in Central Ohio. Other states may produce a different outcome. I'm sure AZ, FL and TX will be different then a northern state.

The more I help others with a 10 plus year old rubber roof camper where the prior owner did nothing for the roof, the outcome is not good. The rubber itself is cracked in the white layer like it was a piece of glass with fine and large lines going all over. The more I learn about how bad a neglected roof turns out in 10 years, the more I am convinced that using 303 UV protectant on the rubber and the caulking makes a significant difference in the lasting of the roof system. Proper cleaning is also part of this. The caulking is still a weak link in this roof system but even the Dicor will benefit from the added UV protection. In 2010 I did a full Eternabond treatment
to deal with the caulking splits that come over the winter.

I never would of known how much my care regiment on the EPDM roof has helped until I have had to help several others repair their failing 10 year old roof system. That and the project camper I acquired this spring.

My vote, care for the rubber roof like your manufacture states and consider a UV protectant.

Hope this helps

John

For what its worth:

"Proper care and maintenance of your recreational vehicle, including your EPDM roof, is important for trouble-free performance. Normal maintenance is simple, easy, and requires no special material.
1. Keep your roof clean. Clean your roof at least four (4) times annually.
For normal cleaning:
– Use Dicor Rubber Roof Cleaner RP-RC160C concentrate to clean complete roof or RP-RC320S ready to use cleaner in a spray bottle for smaller areas. (See CAUTION below.)
– Rinse complete roof with clean water to remove any loose dirt or debris.
– Using a medium bristle brush, along with the cleaner mixed with 2 or 3 gallons of water, scrub the entire roof. Rinse thoroughly with clean water to avoid residue build-up on the roof or sidewalls of the vehicle.
– For more difficult stains, you may use RP-RC160C in its original concentrated form. For stubborn stains, use a cloth dampened with mineral spirits. DO NOT use mineral spirits in a large area or allow it to soak into the membrane.
CAUTION: DO NOT use cleaners or conditioners containing petroleum solvents, harsh abrasives, or citric-based cleaners. You may cause irreparable damage to your roof and/or may void your warranty. Use caution when working on top of your vehicle. The wet membrane may be extremely slippery.
2. Beware of areas where fruit, tree sap, or harsh environmental fall-out may stay on the roof for an extended period of time. These conditions may result in irremovable stains. If you are in these conditions, you may have to increase the frequency of your cleaning."

No, bubbles are the result of less than steller attention to details on behalf of the installers but they are common and wont hurt anything unless they keep growing - which they rarely do.
My last TT had bubbles all along the edge and I never had a problem.

Thanks guys for the replies. There is so much different advice for these roofs. I did clean it with the Lucas #115 cleaner. I did two patches also. Something that concerns me is that there are what looks like bubbles in the epdm sheet. Places where it does not look like the glue held the rubber to the osb decking. Maybe more like wrinkles. Should I be concerned?