Had to replace stock converter due to malfunction. On advice of this forum upgraded to a PD 4645. Started installation yesterday and noticed that wiring into converter is a 10 awg whereas broken converter had 8 awg. I think 10 awg is good, in the home, for 30 amps and 8 awg is good to 40 amps?? Technology is a little different with upgraded unit perhaps but has anyone else noted the same thing and, more importantly, is it likely to be a problem? Havent called supplier yet, thought I would run it by the forum 1st for anyones opinion and expert knowledge. Thanks.

i really would not worry about it at all i just replaced my 45 with a 55 amp that was recommended by a progressive dynamics tech person. the issue is its all about the heat build up in the wire if your wire is under the trailer where mine is there should not be a problem since the heat that is created has time to dissipate to the open air underneath the trailer all that wire does is either charge the battery or run the 12 volt side of the converter if the shorepower is unplugged i can not see any practical way that you coud possibly run enough on your system to heat that wire enough to do any damage to it correct me if i am wrong from what you use versus what i use the only way that i could see that happening would be a direct short to ground without a fuse to blow

. My previous 1993 19ft Prowler TT had a factory 40A convertor and it blew (during a lightning storm and CG power grid endured power surge). I replaced with next size up PD9145AV (45 Amp unit). Simple out with the old and install the new - with NO wire changes. And it worked great. On the good side, the new technology PD9145AV was smaller size and even had a near silent fan. win-win on many fronts. If wondering, my current TT now uses 2 x Tier Surge Protection. But, that's a topic for a different post. Do keep in mind the factory 40A unit and next size up 45A unit is the MAX output of the each unit. If all 12V items are ON are under 40 Amp "load", then full benefits of next higher size Convertor will never be used. I went next size up (40 to 45 Amp) because I like running things below 80% load. Thus, having 20% comfort buffer "when" (and only "when") all 12V consumption items are ON at the same time. Long mumblings short... If no additional 12V items (like 12V power jack) are installed, the MAX Amp power output of next large size convertor won't be used. Thus, no need for a thicker wire that needs to support 45A load...Hope this helps..

. Regarding your 12 Volt Wire Gauge size question, surf chart within - Click Here - Since 45 Amp isn't listed, split the average between 40 and 50 Amp. Or, use 50 Amp load for some extra buffer. And for total length, remember to use combined length of + and - wires. re: 5 + 5 = 10 feet within the chart. re: 10 Gauge wire size.Hope this helps...

#10 unbundled is good for 50 to 60 amps with 105C insulation.http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Store/Tab.aspx?tabid=2This is different rating than bundled romex or THHN in conduit. Although #10 does seem small or minimal sized. I would be tempted to go #8 or up to #4 if easy swap.

spike99 wrote:. Do keep in mind the factory 40A unit and next size up 45A unit is the MAX output of the each unit. If all 12V items are ON are under 40 Amp "load", then full benefits of next higher size Convertor will never be used. I went next size up (40 to 45 Amp) because I like running things below 80% load. Thus, having 20% comfort buffer "when" (and only "when") all 12V consumption items are ON at the same time. Long mumblings short... If no additional 12V items (like 12V power jack) are installed, the MAX Amp power output of next large size convertor won't be used. Thus, no need for a thicker wire that needs to support 45A load...Hope this helps..This is not always the case.If you boondock, and run the battery low, then charge it via generator or shore power....It will likely see the full output.

Converter upgrade question | Good Sam Community

moll672
Explorer
May 21, 2013
Thanks for everyones input especially the chart for wire size and distance. Did the install last week and so far so good. Did need to reroute some of the wiring and wire connections for 12v circuit are screw and clamp instead of clip on connectors.
New converter has 2 fans on the circuit board and I havent heard either of them work yet. Granted though, we have not used trl or been in it that much.
Unit has a push button so that you can select the charging action of the unit, however to get at it I have to lie on the floor and reach it with a push stick!! I can see fully automatic being the best bet.
Huntindog
Explorer
May 17, 2013
spike99 wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
spike99 wrote:
.

Do keep in mind the factory 40A unit and next size up 45A unit is the MAX output of the each unit. If all 12V items are ON are under 40 Amp "load", then full benefits of next higher size Convertor will never be used. I went next size up (40 to 45 Amp) because I like running things below 80% load. Thus, having 20% comfort buffer "when" (and only "when") all 12V consumption items are ON at the same time.

Long mumblings short... If no additional 12V items (like 12V power jack) are installed, the MAX Amp power output of next large size convertor won't be used. Thus, no need for a thicker wire that needs to support 45A load...

Hope this helps..
This is not always the case.
If you boondock, and run the battery low, then charge it via generator or shore power....It will likely see the full output.

If Factory Convertor is 40 Amp and one replaces with "next size up" 45 Amp and NO additional 12V items are added to factory configuration, please explain how a 45 Amp replacement would need to "delivery" more then 40 Amps. If needing to delivery more than 40 Amps (which is factory configuration), it would have over stressed the factory 40 amp converter multiple times.

Since I don't understand your statement (of needing more than factory), please explain.

It is actually very simple. Forget about the 12v draw of the lights etc. as that is not the problem. As you state, those loads can only draw so much.
The battery or batteries can draw as much as the convertor can produce, if they are at a low state of charge.. Now in this case the difference is only 5 amps, so it will likely not make any difference in the wire size.....But if going to a much larger convertor, the wire gauge MUST be large enough to handle the full output of the convertor.

In other words, the factory 40 amp convertor is only capable of putting out 40 amps, no matter how low the battery is. But a larger convertor WILL put out more amps when the battery is low.
spike99
Explorer
May 16, 2013
Huntindog wrote:
spike99 wrote:
.

Do keep in mind the factory 40A unit and next size up 45A unit is the MAX output of the each unit. If all 12V items are ON are under 40 Amp "load", then full benefits of next higher size Convertor will never be used. I went next size up (40 to 45 Amp) because I like running things below 80% load. Thus, having 20% comfort buffer "when" (and only "when") all 12V consumption items are ON at the same time.

Long mumblings short... If no additional 12V items (like 12V power jack) are installed, the MAX Amp power output of next large size convertor won't be used. Thus, no need for a thicker wire that needs to support 45A load...

Hope this helps..
This is not always the case.
If you boondock, and run the battery low, then charge it via generator or shore power....It will likely see the full output.

If Factory Convertor is 40 Amp and one replaces with "next size up" 45 Amp and NO additional 12V items are added to factory configuration, please explain how a 45 Amp replacement would need to "delivery" more then 40 Amps. If needing to delivery more than 40 Amps (which is factory configuration), it would have over stressed the factory 40 amp converter multiple times.

Since I don't understand your statement (of needing more than factory), please explain.
time2roll
Nomad
May 16, 2013
brulaz wrote:
Veering off a bit here...

Does the PD go into Battery Charge leading eventually to Storage Mode whenever the trailer is plugged into 110VAC? Ideally it would, as the battery is not needed when plugged into 110VAC.

The PD manual says:
STORAGE MODE: When the converter senses that there has been no significant battery usage for 30 hours the output voltage is
reduced to 13.2 volts DC for minimal water usage.

But my WFCO does NOT. Only if I remove all the DC fuses will it drop the battery charge voltage below 13.7V.

WFCO is notorious for remaining in "normal" mode even when "boost" or "storage" is expected.
I recommend a direct replacement with PowerMax converter MBA.
http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-Powermax-Main-Board-Replacement_c_196.html
MegaJohn
Explorer
May 16, 2013
brulaz wrote:
Veering off a bit here...

Does the PD go into Battery Charge leading eventually to Storage Mode whenever the trailer is plugged into 110VAC? Ideally it would, as the battery is not needed when plugged into 110VAC.

The PD manual says:
STORAGE MODE: When the converter senses that there has been no significant battery usage for 30 hours the output voltage is
reduced to 13.2 volts DC for minimal water usage.

But my WFCO does NOT. Only if I remove all the DC fuses will it drop the battery charge voltage below 13.7V.

I'm not sure about the OP's PD converter, but I added PD's "charge wizard" to ours... PD Charge Wizard Info.

This upgrade allows us to have 3-mode charging capability... Boost (14.4v), Normal (13.6v), Storage (13.2v).

Happy Camping!
John.
Pauljdav
Explorer
May 16, 2013
The wire coming out of the converter is very short so the 10 gauge will be fine. You might notice the 10 vs the 8 on a very long run to the batteries but not the short run from the converter to the fuse box.

Paul
brulaz
Explorer
May 16, 2013
Veering off a bit here...

Does the PD go into Battery Charge leading eventually to Storage Mode whenever the trailer is plugged into 110VAC? Ideally it would, as the battery is not needed when plugged into 110VAC.

The PD manual says:
STORAGE MODE: When the converter senses that there has been no significant battery usage for 30 hours the output voltage is
reduced to 13.2 volts DC for minimal water usage.

But my WFCO does NOT. Only if I remove all the DC fuses will it drop the battery charge voltage below 13.7V.
RoyB
Explorer II
May 16, 2013
What you have will work. A lot of folks like to upgrade their wiring to the battery location when they upgrade their converters/chargers. If you just have the one battery then leave it like the factory installed. If you are going to start camping off the power grid then I would go all the way up to 4AWG cables and then this would handle multiple batteries being installed in the future.

Also keep in mind your large battery cables will need a protective fuse in case of catastrophe battery cable short. The factory installed fuse located near the battery terminal is usually around 35AMPs. If you add additional batteries to your setup this fuse needs to be a larger rated fuse to protect the battery cable from burning up due to a short circuit. For my four 85AH battery setup I installed a 130AMP fuse to protect my 4AWG battery cable feeding the 60AMP Inverter. The 130AMP fuse I installed is an overkill but was available to use from another project. A 70-80AMP fuse would be used if I had purchased one for this install. This fuse definitely needs to be larger than the rated output of the new installed converter unit.

Wire gauge sizes for comparisons

just my thoughts
Roy Ken
Huntindog
Explorer
May 16, 2013
spike99 wrote:
.

Do keep in mind the factory 40A unit and next size up 45A unit is the MAX output of the each unit. If all 12V items are ON are under 40 Amp "load", then full benefits of next higher size Convertor will never be used. I went next size up (40 to 45 Amp) because I like running things below 80% load. Thus, having 20% comfort buffer "when" (and only "when") all 12V consumption items are ON at the same time.

Long mumblings short... If no additional 12V items (like 12V power jack) are installed, the MAX Amp power output of next large size convertor won't be used. Thus, no need for a thicker wire that needs to support 45A load...

Hope this helps..
This is not always the case.
If you boondock, and run the battery low, then charge it via generator or shore power....It will likely see the full output.
time2roll
Nomad
May 16, 2013
#10 unbundled is good for 50 to 60 amps with 105C insulation.

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Store/Tab.aspx?tabid=2

This is different rating than bundled romex or THHN in conduit. Although #10 does seem small or minimal sized. I would be tempted to go #8 or up to #4 if easy swap.

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