Forum Discussion
Reisender wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
Marty, I think we need a ICE vs BEV sticky thread similar to the diesel vs gas one. It is just the same old circle jerk over and over every time it gets posted every other month which seems to be done for advertisement and/or profit reasons.
I think a sticky would be usefull also. It would provide a reference for those searching for answers about EV’s. So much misinformation out there.
I’m not sure I follow the advertisement or profit comment though. People search for answers on ICE vehicles as well. Doesn’t mean those giving the answers are advertising or profiting.
This is a community forum. If misinfirmation is posted someone from the community usually corrects it. It’s new technology. There is bound to be misinformation out there.
Yep, there is misinformation and hype on both sides of the argument. Many on both sides only seeing/believing what they want to and disregarding anything else as derogatory or lacking intellectual thought or logic if it does not fit what they want to be true. Dismissing "negative" facts or obstacles that haven't been solved yet doesn't mean they go away.
As far as advertisement. It is one thing to root for all BEV's, but it is another for just one brand specifically on a constant basis especially if you profit from it somehow either directly or indirectly.Reisender wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
Marty, I think we need a ICE vs BEV sticky thread similar to the diesel vs gas one. It is just the same old circle jerk over and over every time it gets posted every other month which seems to be done for advertisement and/or profit reasons.
I think a sticky would be usefull also. It would provide a reference for those searching for answers about EV’s. So much misinformation out there.
I’m not sure I follow the advertisement or profit comment though. People search for answers on ICE vehicles as well. Doesn’t mean those giving the answers are advertising or profiting.
This is a community forum. If misinfirmation is posted someone from the community usually corrects it. It’s new technology. There is bound to be misinformation out there.
Agree! We're sure won't be letting ourselves be a shrill for Elon.:D
Or, I could have been unintentionally when I inadvertently become a walking advertising when I pick up my Tesla hats, a black one when my son used to work for Elon and a red one with may daughter's Tesla X (that I don't wear anymore for political connotations.) :B
And he could be alluding to me for earning enough profit to fund my purchase of Cybertruck off trading in Tesla stocks.
But I'm out of Tesla stocks so I have no more reason hyping it as I actually want it to go down back to $420 to re-enter.:pShinerBock wrote:
Marty, I think we need a ICE vs BEV sticky thread similar to the diesel vs gas one. It is just the same old circle jerk over and over every time it gets posted every other month which seems to be done for advertisement and/or profit reasons.
I think a sticky would be usefull also. It would provide a reference for those searching for answers about EV’s. So much misinformation out there.
I’m not sure I follow the advertisement or profit comment though. People search for answers on ICE vehicles as well. Doesn’t mean those giving the answers are advertising or profiting.
This is a community forum. If misinfirmation is posted someone from the community usually corrects it. It’s new technology. There is bound to be misinformation out there.- Marty, I think we need a ICE vs BEV sticky thread similar to the diesel vs gas one. It is just the same old circle jerk over and over every time it gets posted every other month which seems to be done for advertisement and/or profit reasons.
wanderingaimlessly wrote:
What I read when I checked on the charging of these cars, it appeared a full charge was about $22 worth of electricity based on the per KW hour they thought was an average when it was written.
From google,,,
"Supercharging is free for cars purchased before, January 2017. The average supercharger cost of $0.25 per KW also applies for Model 3. A full recharge to about 250 miles of range costs approximately $22.00. More typically, a half charge (150 miles of range) would cost about $11.00."
I dont think the average rv'er uses that much daily except in places like Texas in the summer where they would be running 2 , 15K btuh AC units. So It would likely be a very hard draw, and if folks start using them at campsites, I guess the rest of us are going to get charged extra because of the power consumption of the EV users unless they provide metered outlets for that purpose.
That’s more of a management decision Our toad is/was an EV. We simply would let the campground manager know we had an EV and would ask if we could charge it and of course offer to compensate for it. It had s small battery so it really was inconsequential. But a campground manager can simply ask if the camper has an EV and charge accordingly. Charging a flat fee would be easy or partner with a company like ChargePoint and charge by time or kilowatt. It’s a business. Campground owners will adapt or disappear.- What I read when I checked on the charging of these cars, it appeared a full charge was about $22 worth of electricity based on the per KW hour they thought was an average when it was written.
From google,,,
"Supercharging is free for cars purchased before, January 2017. The average supercharger cost of $0.25 per KW also applies for Model 3. A full recharge to about 250 miles of range costs approximately $22.00. More typically, a half charge (150 miles of range) would cost about $11.00."
I dont think the average rv'er uses that much daily except in places like Texas in the summer where they would be running 2 , 15K btuh AC units. So It would likely be a very hard draw, and if folks start using them at campsites, I guess the rest of us are going to get charged extra because of the power consumption of the EV users unless they provide metered outlets for that purpose. wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Reis,,, maybe I misunderstood. I thought Tesla was putting those charging stations all over specifically because their vehicles needed them. I did not realize they were just advertising.
And as was mentioned before, campground power is woefully inadequate in most areas now with folks getting bigger rigs, more needing 50 amp service and low voltage problems in many due to the demand already being more than their systems can handle.
Maybe in your area they have already addressed these items. I know where I live, most only have 30 amp, and I haven't seen any Tesla power stations in the campgrounds, nor any specifically metered outlets so EV's can pay for their recharging.
So partial misunderstanding. Those Tesla stations you see installed at hotels, golf courses, wineries, shopping malls etc, are a convenience item and usually a way to draw clientele. They are not necessary. An outlet is sufficient. Tesla’s, like every EV, come with an EVSE that can plug into a variety of outlets from 15 amp 120 to 50 amp 240 volt so no real need for the other ones. So although I’m not sure I would call them advertising they are what I would call “loss leaders”. They are more convenient though as it saves taking the EVSE out of it little bag in the trunk and plugging it in. Just drive up and plug in.
Re the infrastructure not being adequate: yah, I think for many campgrounds that may be the case presently, but that will evolve as customers needs change. 10 years ago there were no hotels with RV destination chargers in hotels. Now they are common place. For us to stay in a hotel it has to have two criteria,
1: a continental breakfast that opens early
2: EV destination charging facilities.
As EV trucks become a greater part of the market place over the next couple eventually campgrounds will evolve along these lines as well.
In the meantime sharing a 30 amp connection between an EV and an RV is actually quite useful over a weekend. Trucks will have bigger batteries than cars though. So yah, it takes longer to fill a bigger battery.
You also mentioned regions. I think you are correct. Regions with higher EVssles will see infrastructure change faster than those with less EV sales. In 2019 10 percent of all new vehicle sales were electric in our province were electric. I think in Quebec it was even higher. It is no surprise that at least two gas station chains are now installing DCFC chargers in their gas stations. I haven’t seen this a lot in the US yet but we ave seen it quite a bit in Europe.
I get that non EV drivers are not up on what is happening in the EV world just as we no longer know what the price of gas is or what an oil change or muffler costs. Hopefully this discussion is helpful.
John.Reisender wrote:
Hmmm. Might be some misunderstanding here. All EV’s use electrons. No charging stations needed. And the EV comes with its own EVSE that can plug into any type of receptacle. A campground doesn’t need to provide anything other than a receptacle which is common in many campgrounds. Maybe I misunderstood your meaning. My apologies if that is the case.
I don't understand it myself. It seems it a solution searching for a problem to me.:S
I've looked at the charging station maps and although I checked Tesla's charging stations only cursory, I don't see them beyond or farther away than 200-300 miles of each other.
In fact, if I'm an owner of a gas station, I'll put a for-fee charging station myself to attract EVs as they know for sure that they make more money for travelers stopping for their fast-food and buying from their convenience store than from gas.- Reis,,, maybe I misunderstood. I thought Tesla was putting those charging stations all over specifically because their vehicles needed them. I did not realize they were just advertising.
And as was mentioned before, campground power is woefully inadequate in most areas now with folks getting bigger rigs, more needing 50 amp service and low voltage problems in many due to the demand already being more than their systems can handle.
Maybe in your area they have already addressed these items. I know where I live, most only have 30 amp, and I haven't seen any Tesla power stations in the campgrounds, nor any specifically metered outlets so EV's can pay for their recharging. - So let’s say a person is okay owning a pickup truck for many years. Doesn’t feel the need to change to the bigger distraction screen and bigger than a Kenworth’s grille (look underneath - they still come with wagon springs ... except that stupid air ride the class 8 world hasn’t figured out is no good - I digress)...
Everything turns relatively slow in an electric wheel end motor vehicle, nothing really reciprocates, the main propulsion uses electron pressure which should still be around in 20 years ... lower vibration frequency, and wear rpm, no corrosive gas exhaust system, no leaking fuel system, no prop shaft, no hydraulic transmission or steering system (or brakes?) no gear reduction axles with bearings failing, no leaking radiator, no it’s too cold it won’t start, no idling, ...
The main issue now is battery and recharge technology...
What if battery technology keeps evolving and your 10 year old EV can have new tech swapped in vs a total replacement of the vehicle?
What if the 4 cylinder engine in my mid 2000’s Ford Model A 1/4 ton pickup ( Ranger ) has more power and efficiency and lifespan than my neighbors restored 1928 Model A pickup?
