Decision, Decisions
I finally purchased some land and a 3 bedroom house this past winter so I no longer have the need to live in my Arctic Fox 1150. It was a great place to live for the last 2.5 years and it saved me a ton of money not renting a house but life changes and here I am.
The 1150 was nice and roomy for living in but it's length was always a downfall for camping, especially the places I like to go. I was always wary of the long overhang and ripping out a corner jack. I never towed with it as I would have had to purchase a superhitch and at least a 46" extension. I am getting some motorbikes soon for me and my kids so now I need to tow and I don't need such a lengthy TC for camping.
This last spring I decided to put it up for sale. A few weeks ago it sold for only $1000 less than I bought it for 3 years ago so I felt very fortunate and I know it went to a good home. I wasn't sure it would ever sell because many of the inquiries were asking if a 1-ton SRW would work to haul it. I held back my desire to sell it and let safety win out. I told them they would need a dually to be safe and happy driving it so I passed on several potential sells. Thankfully a dually owner finally stepped up and took it home. I only had to throw in my fast-guns and truck-to-camper plug extension to send it on it's way.
Anyhow now I need (want really) a new camper. The AF dealer I bought my 1150 from no longer sells AF. The new AF dealer is only 1 hour away so not the end of the world but I really like the dealership I bought my 1150 from. They now sell Northern Lite campers so I have really been studying them hard, spending many hours looking them over & reading everything I can find about them on here and for the most part I am impressed enough to consider one as my next camper. I like the 9.6 better than the 10.2 as I believe they designed the plumbing system much better for cold weather use. Many of you know I am big into being able to use my camper year round here in Idaho with all the water systems and not freezing them. The 10.2 has too many water lines next to outside walls and compartment doors to make me feel safe about being able to do that problem free.
There is also a Lance dealer 1 hour away, and very close to the new AF dealer. I have taken a likeing to the 950s but it has some things I am not sure about either(mainly tank size compared to AF).
Palomino Maverick is the other TC brand in the area but after owning an AF for so long I feel the Maverick is really lacking in build quality so it's off the table for me even though it is about $7,000 cheaper. I just can't bring myself to buy something brand new but already cracked and leaking water around many of the seams. I feel sorry for the person who ends up buying the ones here but buyer beware I guess.
I would like to consider other brands but traveling so far just to kick the tires is not in the budget for me. Bigfoot interests me but the closest dealer is Western Oregon and Colorado as far as I can tell. Host, Eagle Cap and others seem nice too but I won't buy without seeing one in person so I'm looking for the closest dealers for them but I would also like to deal with a dealer close to where I live in case of potential problems.
That brings me to my decision dilemma. I have narrowed it down to 3 campers here locally that I like.
2013 Lance 950s
2013 Arctic Fox 990 from the new AF dealer around here
2014 Northern Lite 9'6" Q Classic Series Special Edition from my favorite dealership
I had an unfortunate experience at the local Lance dealer so if I buy Lance I'll travel to another dealer to buy. I started off with a really nice salesman but he was just starting in the business and didn't have all the answers yet so I had to go talk to another salesman for pricing and a couple other questions. One thing I can't stand is going to a dealer and listening to a salesman go on and on bashing and telling me everything he feels is wrong with the other brands just to try and make his brand seem better whether its TC, cars, appliance etc.
I know Lance is a good camper, if it wasn't they wouldn't be one of the best selling TC makers in the business. I also know Arctic Fox is a good camper after extensive use over the past 3 years. I went to the Lance dealership to learn about the Lance product not Arctic Fox or any other brand but this "veteran" salesman thought he needed to educate me on how badly Arctic Fox campers are made. I think the competition from the new AF dealer up the street must be getting to him. I told him I'm not interested in hearing about AF from him because I've owned, lived in and did some crazy amazing camping in one for 3 years so I probably know more about AF than he does, I told him I came here to research Lance campers not Arctic Fox. It just left a bad taste in my mouth so I won't be dropping my money off there. Too bad because that 950S is a really nice camper for the same price as the AF 990.
I really don't have anything negative to say about the AF 990 mainly because I really loved my 1150 and the 990 is just the little brother to it only blessed with the short gene. I will be fine with a wet bath now that I am not living in it, I also lose a wardrobe and two drawers which will also be fine as I don't need as much stuff for camping as I did full timing. The new AF dealership is good as far as I've dealt with them so far. The salesman I happened to find has been there so long he doesn't even need to get approval from management to make deals. Today he happened to be in a throwing mood. He said he would throw in a new set of fast-guns when I told him I gave mine with my 1150 sale. When I told him I needed dually swing-out brackets to load it on my truck he threw those in too at their sale price of $29,000 which is down from over $38,000 retail price. That's still a bit more than they were 3 years ago though but so is everything else I guess. This 990 has the AC, Onan 2500 gen, & thermal pane windows (I like that for winter camping) basically it is set up exactly like my 1150 with the addition of the better dual pane windows from Hehr.
There was a 992 sitting right next to it with the Fox landing and I mentioned how I really liked that so he threw that in too for the same sale price if I agreed to pay for the dually swing-out brackets. So out the door 990 with new fast-guns, dually brackets, Fox landing, taxes, title and dealer fees would be $31,255. I still have to ponder about how good of a deal that is when I bought my new 1150 for just under $26,000 3 years ago but my salesman wasn't in a throwing mood back then so I had to buy my own fast guns and didn't get a Fox Landing or thermal pane windows on my 1150.
Now to the Northern Lite, where do I start? I have really fallen in love with this little one. I hope it doesn't look too funny on my dually if I end up getting it. TC folks might look at me funny as to why I have such a big truck for my camper. I am really excited about how light it is compared to the 990. Even though my truck will handle a 990 no problem it probably won't even know a NL is onboard so I'll have more than enough towing capacity for any future toys.
Some things that really impress me about NL are the lack of seams to do maintenance on. I spent many hours going over and resealing my 1150 this year, what a pain that was. I know NL is not maintenance free but it will be substantially less work maintaining the seals than it was on the AF.
Small lightweight and compact. It really feels cozy inside. Even without a slide I feel the floorplan is well thought out. I can't think how I would do it better for the space available.
The storage compartment outside is large enough for a Honda 2000 type gen. I don't know if I trust the locks enough to leave it there all the time but it's nice to have a spot for it while traveling.
The basement storage is huge for such a small camper, much larger than my 1150 even. While storage is nice it adds to one of the downsides which I think they should have used more basement space for larger tanks but I understand the need to keep weight down as not everyone wants to put their NL on a dually.
The interior is beautiful and well constructed, easily comparable to an AF interior as far as fit, finish and workmanship.
Here are a few of my concerns with NL. Hopefully some NL owners can comment on their experience with some of them as I am really trying to talk myself into this shorter lighter camper.
Small tanks 25 gal fresh less than 1/2 the AF capacity. I know this has to do with keeping it lightweight but that's not very many showers when I take my daughter and girlfriend. Waste tanks are much smaller as well. I know this is a personal problem but I like staying out boondocking for 5-6 days at a time. I think I see how I can possibly add 10-20 more gallons of fresh on top of the fresh tank or perhaps just replace the original tank with a taller one but then where will it all go if the waste tanks are so small. Maybe I can modify the basement for more waste tank capacity?
Smaller furnace and propane tanks, the whole camper is smaller so I'm hoping this concern more than evens out especially without a slide to lose heat but I'd really like to be able to use it down to 0 degrees or colder if needed. I don't ever plan on camping at -20 F but I know my 1150 was good to that temp without freezing as I used it this last winter at that cold of temperature. Has anyone used a NL at well below 0 temps without problems with water freezing or running out of propane. This is probably one of my biggest concerns as I like winter camping and cold weather trips in the winter to visit my kids. Is the construction and insulation going to suffice in Idaho for winter camping like my AF did? I see R6 listed for the entire construction, top bottom and sides. Doesn't seem like enough when just comparing numbers to AF & Lance.
Storage compartment doors are thinner than AF but same as Lance, same question as above. Any valves or important stuff freeze due to this?
Bathroom much smaller than 990 and 950s, another personal problem though. I don't spend much time there so I think I'll be fine but girlfriend and/or daughter may cut back on number of camping trips, not sure if that would be good or bad yet though.
Heki skylight and dometic dual pain windows. There is another thread currently running that I am watching closely on these components.
Anyone have issues with the happijac jacks. They look sufficient but not as substantial as the Rieco-titans I'm use to. I know they are lifting nearly half the weight but just wondering. I can't imagine a company like NL using sub optimal jacks but never know.
No rain gutters or extended down spouts for water running off the roof like AF & Lance have. I know this would look ugly on a NL but is there any streaking or cleaning issues related to not having the roof water channelled away from the sides?
Lastly, and I hope I can come up with a good answer to this because this is my biggest hold-up on the Northern Lite, and that is they are dang proud of their campers as reflected in their pricing! This camper retails for about $48,000 ($10,000 more than the retail on the AF and it doesn't even have AC, onboard generator, microwave or a slide-out).
My good friends at the dealership gave me their super discount VIP repeat customer extra special promo pricing of $34,615 then add 6% Idaho sales tax, title, license and dealer fees puts me over $37,100 and then I still have to spend $800 for dually swing-out brackets and fast-guns to take it home because no-one is in a throwing mood there apparently. So I guess I don't really see the reason for the higher price of a NL. Is there something I'm missing here?
I've heard the manufacturing process is more intensive but if it doesn't result in a product that is far and away superior than I feel I'm wasting money by spending that much more money for a smaller space, & much less optioned unit. I really like the NL but I don't see anything about it that is any better than the AF other than less seams to reseal every few years and less weight. I am already driving the answer for the weight of the heavier AF so that's a non-issue other than I won't be towing any 40' house boats to the lake with me and if the seam sealing maintenence was completely eliminated I could go for the higher pricing but it's not so I don't know what to thinkabout their pricing?
My other option is that I have been watching Jfet's homemade camper build and have been seriously considering on embarking on my own journey down this same path then I don't have to worry about dropping 30K+ all at once, I can do it slowly over time.
Decisions, Decisions. . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thanks to anyone who was bored enough to read through all this and to those who leave comments, very much appreciated.
The 1150 was nice and roomy for living in but it's length was always a downfall for camping, especially the places I like to go. I was always wary of the long overhang and ripping out a corner jack. I never towed with it as I would have had to purchase a superhitch and at least a 46" extension. I am getting some motorbikes soon for me and my kids so now I need to tow and I don't need such a lengthy TC for camping.
This last spring I decided to put it up for sale. A few weeks ago it sold for only $1000 less than I bought it for 3 years ago so I felt very fortunate and I know it went to a good home. I wasn't sure it would ever sell because many of the inquiries were asking if a 1-ton SRW would work to haul it. I held back my desire to sell it and let safety win out. I told them they would need a dually to be safe and happy driving it so I passed on several potential sells. Thankfully a dually owner finally stepped up and took it home. I only had to throw in my fast-guns and truck-to-camper plug extension to send it on it's way.
Anyhow now I need (want really) a new camper. The AF dealer I bought my 1150 from no longer sells AF. The new AF dealer is only 1 hour away so not the end of the world but I really like the dealership I bought my 1150 from. They now sell Northern Lite campers so I have really been studying them hard, spending many hours looking them over & reading everything I can find about them on here and for the most part I am impressed enough to consider one as my next camper. I like the 9.6 better than the 10.2 as I believe they designed the plumbing system much better for cold weather use. Many of you know I am big into being able to use my camper year round here in Idaho with all the water systems and not freezing them. The 10.2 has too many water lines next to outside walls and compartment doors to make me feel safe about being able to do that problem free.
There is also a Lance dealer 1 hour away, and very close to the new AF dealer. I have taken a likeing to the 950s but it has some things I am not sure about either(mainly tank size compared to AF).
Palomino Maverick is the other TC brand in the area but after owning an AF for so long I feel the Maverick is really lacking in build quality so it's off the table for me even though it is about $7,000 cheaper. I just can't bring myself to buy something brand new but already cracked and leaking water around many of the seams. I feel sorry for the person who ends up buying the ones here but buyer beware I guess.
I would like to consider other brands but traveling so far just to kick the tires is not in the budget for me. Bigfoot interests me but the closest dealer is Western Oregon and Colorado as far as I can tell. Host, Eagle Cap and others seem nice too but I won't buy without seeing one in person so I'm looking for the closest dealers for them but I would also like to deal with a dealer close to where I live in case of potential problems.
That brings me to my decision dilemma. I have narrowed it down to 3 campers here locally that I like.
2013 Lance 950s
2013 Arctic Fox 990 from the new AF dealer around here
2014 Northern Lite 9'6" Q Classic Series Special Edition from my favorite dealership
I had an unfortunate experience at the local Lance dealer so if I buy Lance I'll travel to another dealer to buy. I started off with a really nice salesman but he was just starting in the business and didn't have all the answers yet so I had to go talk to another salesman for pricing and a couple other questions. One thing I can't stand is going to a dealer and listening to a salesman go on and on bashing and telling me everything he feels is wrong with the other brands just to try and make his brand seem better whether its TC, cars, appliance etc.
I know Lance is a good camper, if it wasn't they wouldn't be one of the best selling TC makers in the business. I also know Arctic Fox is a good camper after extensive use over the past 3 years. I went to the Lance dealership to learn about the Lance product not Arctic Fox or any other brand but this "veteran" salesman thought he needed to educate me on how badly Arctic Fox campers are made. I think the competition from the new AF dealer up the street must be getting to him. I told him I'm not interested in hearing about AF from him because I've owned, lived in and did some crazy amazing camping in one for 3 years so I probably know more about AF than he does, I told him I came here to research Lance campers not Arctic Fox. It just left a bad taste in my mouth so I won't be dropping my money off there. Too bad because that 950S is a really nice camper for the same price as the AF 990.
I really don't have anything negative to say about the AF 990 mainly because I really loved my 1150 and the 990 is just the little brother to it only blessed with the short gene. I will be fine with a wet bath now that I am not living in it, I also lose a wardrobe and two drawers which will also be fine as I don't need as much stuff for camping as I did full timing. The new AF dealership is good as far as I've dealt with them so far. The salesman I happened to find has been there so long he doesn't even need to get approval from management to make deals. Today he happened to be in a throwing mood. He said he would throw in a new set of fast-guns when I told him I gave mine with my 1150 sale. When I told him I needed dually swing-out brackets to load it on my truck he threw those in too at their sale price of $29,000 which is down from over $38,000 retail price. That's still a bit more than they were 3 years ago though but so is everything else I guess. This 990 has the AC, Onan 2500 gen, & thermal pane windows (I like that for winter camping) basically it is set up exactly like my 1150 with the addition of the better dual pane windows from Hehr.
There was a 992 sitting right next to it with the Fox landing and I mentioned how I really liked that so he threw that in too for the same sale price if I agreed to pay for the dually swing-out brackets. So out the door 990 with new fast-guns, dually brackets, Fox landing, taxes, title and dealer fees would be $31,255. I still have to ponder about how good of a deal that is when I bought my new 1150 for just under $26,000 3 years ago but my salesman wasn't in a throwing mood back then so I had to buy my own fast guns and didn't get a Fox Landing or thermal pane windows on my 1150.
Now to the Northern Lite, where do I start? I have really fallen in love with this little one. I hope it doesn't look too funny on my dually if I end up getting it. TC folks might look at me funny as to why I have such a big truck for my camper. I am really excited about how light it is compared to the 990. Even though my truck will handle a 990 no problem it probably won't even know a NL is onboard so I'll have more than enough towing capacity for any future toys.
Some things that really impress me about NL are the lack of seams to do maintenance on. I spent many hours going over and resealing my 1150 this year, what a pain that was. I know NL is not maintenance free but it will be substantially less work maintaining the seals than it was on the AF.
Small lightweight and compact. It really feels cozy inside. Even without a slide I feel the floorplan is well thought out. I can't think how I would do it better for the space available.
The storage compartment outside is large enough for a Honda 2000 type gen. I don't know if I trust the locks enough to leave it there all the time but it's nice to have a spot for it while traveling.
The basement storage is huge for such a small camper, much larger than my 1150 even. While storage is nice it adds to one of the downsides which I think they should have used more basement space for larger tanks but I understand the need to keep weight down as not everyone wants to put their NL on a dually.
The interior is beautiful and well constructed, easily comparable to an AF interior as far as fit, finish and workmanship.
Here are a few of my concerns with NL. Hopefully some NL owners can comment on their experience with some of them as I am really trying to talk myself into this shorter lighter camper.
Small tanks 25 gal fresh less than 1/2 the AF capacity. I know this has to do with keeping it lightweight but that's not very many showers when I take my daughter and girlfriend. Waste tanks are much smaller as well. I know this is a personal problem but I like staying out boondocking for 5-6 days at a time. I think I see how I can possibly add 10-20 more gallons of fresh on top of the fresh tank or perhaps just replace the original tank with a taller one but then where will it all go if the waste tanks are so small. Maybe I can modify the basement for more waste tank capacity?
Smaller furnace and propane tanks, the whole camper is smaller so I'm hoping this concern more than evens out especially without a slide to lose heat but I'd really like to be able to use it down to 0 degrees or colder if needed. I don't ever plan on camping at -20 F but I know my 1150 was good to that temp without freezing as I used it this last winter at that cold of temperature. Has anyone used a NL at well below 0 temps without problems with water freezing or running out of propane. This is probably one of my biggest concerns as I like winter camping and cold weather trips in the winter to visit my kids. Is the construction and insulation going to suffice in Idaho for winter camping like my AF did? I see R6 listed for the entire construction, top bottom and sides. Doesn't seem like enough when just comparing numbers to AF & Lance.
Storage compartment doors are thinner than AF but same as Lance, same question as above. Any valves or important stuff freeze due to this?
Bathroom much smaller than 990 and 950s, another personal problem though. I don't spend much time there so I think I'll be fine but girlfriend and/or daughter may cut back on number of camping trips, not sure if that would be good or bad yet though.
Heki skylight and dometic dual pain windows. There is another thread currently running that I am watching closely on these components.
Anyone have issues with the happijac jacks. They look sufficient but not as substantial as the Rieco-titans I'm use to. I know they are lifting nearly half the weight but just wondering. I can't imagine a company like NL using sub optimal jacks but never know.
No rain gutters or extended down spouts for water running off the roof like AF & Lance have. I know this would look ugly on a NL but is there any streaking or cleaning issues related to not having the roof water channelled away from the sides?
Lastly, and I hope I can come up with a good answer to this because this is my biggest hold-up on the Northern Lite, and that is they are dang proud of their campers as reflected in their pricing! This camper retails for about $48,000 ($10,000 more than the retail on the AF and it doesn't even have AC, onboard generator, microwave or a slide-out).
My good friends at the dealership gave me their super discount VIP repeat customer extra special promo pricing of $34,615 then add 6% Idaho sales tax, title, license and dealer fees puts me over $37,100 and then I still have to spend $800 for dually swing-out brackets and fast-guns to take it home because no-one is in a throwing mood there apparently. So I guess I don't really see the reason for the higher price of a NL. Is there something I'm missing here?
I've heard the manufacturing process is more intensive but if it doesn't result in a product that is far and away superior than I feel I'm wasting money by spending that much more money for a smaller space, & much less optioned unit. I really like the NL but I don't see anything about it that is any better than the AF other than less seams to reseal every few years and less weight. I am already driving the answer for the weight of the heavier AF so that's a non-issue other than I won't be towing any 40' house boats to the lake with me and if the seam sealing maintenence was completely eliminated I could go for the higher pricing but it's not so I don't know what to thinkabout their pricing?
My other option is that I have been watching Jfet's homemade camper build and have been seriously considering on embarking on my own journey down this same path then I don't have to worry about dropping 30K+ all at once, I can do it slowly over time.
Decisions, Decisions. . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thanks to anyone who was bored enough to read through all this and to those who leave comments, very much appreciated.
