Diesel Titan Info

It appears we now have most of the pertinent data on the Nissan Cummins, with the exception of price.

A little number crunching (and a dose of reality) will probably show the Nissan Cummins will inevitably be priced very similar to the Big 3 3/4 - 1 ton diesels. IMO, no magical $5k-$10k discount is gonna appear to help it sell against the Big 3, big-bore diesels.

Some want to make a direct connection between price and tow/haul capability. If something has less tow/haul capability it should cost less.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, market forces are driven by a dizzying and confusing combination of features/specs such as MPG, payload, tow capacity, luxury, styling, gas, diesel, torque, and/or price.

For example, the Ecodiesel. Even though it has low towing capacity, the lowest payload, and is selling with MSRP's as high as many 3/4 - 1 ton diesels . . . it's still a big success . . . all because there is a market segment that places a higher priority on MPG, diesel, and luxury, relative to the other features/specs.

The Nissan Cummins has the advantage of a unique combination of features/specs: diesel, 24 MPG, 550 ft. lbs. of torque, 2k payload, and 12k towing. Yes, there are trucks that may beat this truck handily in one or two categories, but there are no other trucks with this unique combination of "mid-range" numbers. IMO, this in itself places this truck in an excellent position to potentially do well, even with an MSRP as high as the Big 3, big-bore diesels.

For now it looks good on paper. Yup, time will tell.

I'll be keeping an eye on this truck for sure. My Eco is not up to what I need (somewhat my fault for not being well versed on load versus tow capacity - I was a newbie to towing). I need 2000-2500 payload and 10,000 tow. I don't need a full 3/4t with a diesel, and I don't want NA gas since I tow at altitude often. I do agree with most - it ain't much to look at. Hopefully it is better live. Interested in rear axle rating and real payload stickers. Time will tell.

Mike

ksss wrote:
Really? The GM half ton will pull 12K. Lets see if that 2K payload will be in a pickup that anyone will buy, I am doubtful. Also lets see what the real EPA economy numbers are before we brag about them.

Not bragging, just celebrating competition and innovation--doesn't matter the manufacturer. Owned everything except Ram. They're all good.

In any case, they're estimating 24 MPG (highway) for the 5.0 Cummins. Although unofficial, this same figure has come from several sources. When you position the 5.0 Cummins in the middle ground between the 28 MPG 3.0 Ecodiesel, and the 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel with ~15-18 MPG, the 24 MPG figure certainly seems like a very reasonable and obtainable estimate.

If it pans out, the Nissan 5.0 Cummins' 24 MPG, 550 ft. lbs. of torque, 2k of payload, and 12k of tow capacity, will be quite a combination. Nothing else out there with these combination of numbers.

All this bodes well for the Nissan 5.0 Cummins, and us as truck consumers.

brulaz wrote:
Anybody know if these will be included in Nissan's CAFE calculations?
Are they over the GVWR (8500# is it??) limit?

I had read in an another forum that was quoting someone at Nissan saying that some configurations will over the weight required to post mpg.

All that power takes a significant powertrain to handle it. The interior I think looks pretty good. The exterior leaves something to talk about, pretty homely in my opinion.

The performance will be there, powertrain looks to be quality. I think the question becomes what kind of MPG will it get and what will it cost. The later probably being the most important. If they get crazy on pricing this thing, I think the Nissan dealers will have new lot art to look at (along side the existing Titan).

Anybody know if these will be included in Nissan's CAFE calculations?
Are they over the GVWR (8500# is it??) limit?

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
RobertRayen it's not a brand new engine, it was designed to go into the 1500 Ram back in the Damn-Liar days, 2007? the economy was tanking and they pulled the plug on a 1500 Ram diesel. Cost Chrysler a boat load of money just to let it sit on the self.


Don

If I remember correctly all 3 had baby diesels deep in the pipeline ready to go. But with diesel prices going crazy everyone was waiting for someone to commit before releasing theirs. In the end they all reversed directions and went back to developing the more efficient gas option. If it wasn't for the $4 diesel prices and unknown acceptance of the U.S. consumer we would have seen these years ago.

brulaz wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

brulaz wrote:

otrfun wrote:

...
For those that prefer a balanced combination of fuel economy AND towing/payload capability, we now have the Nissan Titan XD Cummins V8 diesel.

I would add the F150 HD Payload with the 3.5L EcoB to that.

Except that time and again tests and real world experience have shown that the EcoBoost has little to no MPG advantage over comparable V8 engines, towing or solo.

And the fuel economy of the Cummins 5.0 hasn't yet been released.

I am a fan of diesel power, but with the way fuel prices are right now, I am uncertain of the value of a 1500 equivalent diesel truck to the consumer. I understand the manufactures need to produce these for CAFE requirements (assuming the Cummins has good MPG numbers), but in my part of the country diesel is $1.00 more per gallon than regular unleaded. If it stays that way, there has to be a significant MPG advantage of a diesel to have equivalent or lower cost per mile for the consumer.

I like this engine, but with the way the fuel market is, this isn't the best time to be launching a diesel. Will be interesting to see what the EPA numbers are for it. I hope this truck is a success.

But those "comparable V8 engines" are not avilable in a HD model with payloads greater than 2000#. (Unless you mean Ford's 5L V8 which has a lot less low-rpm torque.) The F150 with HD payload is the only other truck in this "heavy-half"category that I'm aware of.

And we can assume that the 5L's fuel economy might be 20-30% better that the F150 EcoB. I think Nissan press release says 20% better than a big V8 when towing. But MPG is deceptive when comparing diesel versus gas engines.

As you point out, if you are strictly into the $$/mile, then diesel can currently lose out in some areas because of the high cost of diesel. Even ignoring the high upfront costs and possible maintenance diesel issues.

If you are into environmental issues, like Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions, then most of diesel's 20-25% mileage improvement over similar gas engines is solely because it is more concentrated. It has roughly 20% more BTUs and carbon per gallon IIRC, and it consequently emits (roughly) 20% more GHG. So the net improvement over a similar gas engine may only be 0-10%. If you go to the EPA site and compare total GHG emissions for a 2015 4x2 F150 2.7L versus a RAM EcoD, the F150 is better despite a lower mpg.

There other advantages to diesel though: the exceptional low rpm torque and Exhaust Brake are two that I weight highly. I'm just not sure how much of a premium I'm willing to pay for them.

I agree with a lot of this. Another big advantage to me is I live at moderate altitude and consistently go above 7500 feet towing my trailer.

RobertRayen it's not a brand new engine, it was designed to go into the 1500 Ram back in the Damn-Liar days, 2007? the economy was tanking and they pulled the plug on a 1500 Ram diesel. Cost Chrysler a boat load of money just to let it sit on the self.

Not sure if I'm digging the outside of the new Titan but the things that caught my eye where the front view camera you can see it in pic 20. The full size back seat that does not have a big cut out in the middle seating position gets two thumbs up!

I noticed in pic 36 an emblem that looks strangely familiar, anyone that has owned an older Titan can till me if that has always been it emblem or did Fred kinda copy the Ram Longhorn emblem as a dig?

The V8 Cummins should not weigh too much more than it's in-line 6 big brother, maybe 500# tops. Remember it has two heads and two more pistons and all the things that go with them. I'm betting the fuel mileage is not going to be much better then the 3.5 Ecoboost at best.

But with all that said I think the Titan will be a winner for Nissan. So what is the word on Toyota's new 1500 diesel? Hope to make it to the show this saturday, if we do will post up pics of the vehicles.

Don

ChooChooMan74 wrote:
Here is something else on the titan...

Autoblog.com wrote:
Helping TITAN XD owners take advantage of its ample towing power are a range of available hitches – including an integrated gooseneck hitch engineered into the frame and easily accessible in the bed. Gooseneck hitches put the load in front of the rear axle, enhancing the ability to control the vehicle.

My concern is why the Cummins has low horsepower and torque numbers for a brand new engine ?

otrfun wrote:

ksss wrote:

otrfun wrote:

ksss wrote:
There is no way Nissan or Toyota will be able to offer 500 plus foot pounds, and a payload capacity of 2k or higher and call it a .5 ton. Its not going to happen . . .

Why not? Why can't they call it a 1/2 ton? It's just a marketing facade. The DOT may classify/regulate trucks based on GVWR, but they don't regulate how a manufacturer markets their trucks.

How much torque is necessary to classify (or market) a truck as a "3/4 ton" truck? Is it 400? 450? 500?

As for payload, some F150's with the Heavy Duty Payload package have a payload rating approaching 3000 lbs. Ford still calls them F150's, a "1/2 ton" truck.

Nissan and Toyota have a lot to lose if they market their Nissan or Toyota Cummins V8 as a "3/4 ton". Why? Because from a marketing perspective they'd be eaten alive by the Big 3. It would be called the wimpiest "3/4 ton" ever.

However, if Nissan & Toyota market their Cummins V8 trucks as "1/2 tons" or "Heavy-Duty 1/2 tons", they can more than likely brag about class-leading torque, massive payload, and class-leading tow capacity.

Is all this fair? Truthful? Maybe yes, maybe no. Like it or not, it's what marketing is all about.

I am familiar with how marketing works. While I credit you with "outside of the box" thinking. I don't see it going to go down the you lay it out. If everyone followed your logic we would see one pickup a 350-3500 rebadged as a heavy half.

The hp/torque rating on the Cummins wouldn't give the Nissan marketing bragging rights in the HD market, however low to mid 20's mpg and 10-15K price tag under the big three combined with respectable towing capacity would.

The running gear to support the Cummins is going to take away from payload. Spring it too stiff and you lose the half ton ride. I don't see them coming anywhere close to 2K payload, maybe I will be wrong, looking forward to seeing the specs. Toyota offered the Tundra as heavy half, bigger brakes, big engine, poor mileage, cool commercials showing how powerful they are and look how many of those they sell and Nissan doesn't have the brand loyalty that Toyota enjoys.

ksss, if this link bears any truth, it looks like it did happen. They did exactly what many of us have been saying had to happen for the last year or so--12,000 lbs. of towing and 2,000 lbs. of payload. They didn't call it a 3/4 ton for obvious reasons, but did call it an "XD", which is obviously Nissan's version of a heavy duty 1/2 ton.

For all those on the fence about diesel vs. gas, or 1/2 vs. 3/4 ton, we truck consumers finally get something that may make the choice a bit easier. For those into raw economy, you've got the Ecodiesel. For those into brute towing/payload, you've got the Big 3 3/4 and 1 tons.

For those that prefer a balanced combination of fuel economy AND towing/payload capability, we now have the Nissan Titan XD Cummins V8 diesel.

Really? The GM half ton will pull 12K. Lets see if that 2K payload will be in a pickup that anyone will buy, I am doubtful. Also lets see what the real EPA economy numbers are before we brag about them.