Diesel Tuners

"On a diesel engine the turbo is on there to just keep EGT and emissions in check."

This is the first time I have ever seen a statement like this. Turbos have been used on diesels since forever to boost HP - John Deere tractors, semi's, etc. Long before there were any emissions standards at all.

In fact, possibly the coolest diesel car in existance - the Audi R18 Le Mans racer, gets approx 500 HP from a 3.7L turbo V-6. I doubt that the turbo is on there for emissions reasons.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative as I assume there's a little more to your statement. I'd really like to know what you mean.

Tim

Bob Vaughn wrote:
I received an email and video from Trailer Life about Bully Dog GT tuners for diesel engines. It all sounds good but I have been warned that the warranty would be voided if I use a tuner. Now I wonder if this is true. If so then I guess I will have to wait until my warranty is up. It is 699 bucks and I wonder if there is enough of a fuel economy savings to ever break even?

#1. Yes, your warranty will be toast with a tuner.

Now, if you put a tuner on your truck and your radio or window motor goes out does that mean the dealer won't fix these things? No, not at all. What if your engine, tranny or rear end blows up? More than likely yes. All OEM's want a computer snapshot sent to them before any major work is done on their dime. IOW's if you blow your motor and want it fixed on the OEM's dime the dealer will have to send in all computer records before they can proceed to fix it.

And before anybody starts; no you can't hide a tuner from the OEM. Not going to work no matter how many times anybody says it on here.



Lets talk about fuel savings. A tuner adjusts just a few "major" things on a diesel engine. (there are more but these are the big 3)
#1. Boost pressure.
#2. Injection timing.
#3. Fuel setting.

#1. Boost pressure on a diesel engine does nothing by itself to raise power levels. IOW's if I raised my boost pressure from 30 lbs to 40 lbs I would gain nothing. On a diesel engine the turbo is on there to just keep EGT and emissions in check.

#2. When injection timing is played with you can pick up a few HP because the engine will become more efficient. This is where the tuner picks up a little mileage. Not much, but a little. Problem is NOX will go sky high if you jack up the timing rate. Same way with the gasoline engines of the 70's. Anybody remember the BB they would put in a vacuum advance lines to limit NOX? It also used a lot more fuel and killed a lot of power but it did lower NOX significantly.

#3. The big one. Fuel. Any tuner that adds more than a few HP adds fuel. No way around that no matter what people say. With a diesel engine the more fuel you add the more power you will make.
The problem is if you add more fuel your mileage will go down "if" you use that HP.
If you have a diesel engine that will use X amount of fuel at 200HP it will use 2x's X at 400HP at WOT.

Now, to answer your question. Will you get better fuel economy with a tuner? The answer is a solid maybe. It just depends on how you drive your truck while towing.

If you drive your truck with a light foot with a tuner you will see better economy than with a stock setting. Remember the injection timing and how it makes the engine more efficient? This is where the mileage savings is coming from.

If you drive your truck more aggressively you will see a drop in mileage. Remember how the tuner makes more power? Yep, with more fuel; and this is where the drop in economy will occur.

So there you have it. It just depends.

Propane injection and H2O/MeOH injection

Begets better MPG, more complete combustion of diesel, lowers EGTs...

More 'Boy Racer' stuff than tuners...

Yes, you would be putting your warranty in jeopardy if you tune your truck.

No. It is very unlikely you would see enough of a fuel economy increase to pay for the tuner.

Yes, they add serious power that amkes the truck much more fun to drive. I ran tuners or chips on my previous diesels, and really enjoyed the experience. I had no issues and huge power increases, but no fuel economy increases.

TXiceman wrote:
On the older 5.9L Cummins and the Ford 7.3L, the tuners did really give them more punch, but you needed to monitor exhaust temperature.

With the newer engines and all of the emissions controls, I would not mess with the factory tuning. They have pretty much pulled what they feel is safe for the engine.

As for warranty, the Magnuson-Moss Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act) prevents manufacturers from denying warranty based on the addition of something to a vehicle. The added equipment must be proven to damage the vehicle. Now comes the problem.

The manufacturers have deep pockets and lots of lawyers. If you are denied warranty, you have a broken vehicle and you have to hire an attorney to take on the massive corporation. They can beat you down until you are broke or simply give up. The government will not go to bat for your case.

I am leaving my 6.7L Ford bone stock. It has the power to do the job I need done.

Ken

Magnuson Moss Act is for aftermarket replacement parts and fluids, not tuners that add more power.

It would probably help to know what kind of truck you have. I have a Smarty tuner in my truck, but most of the emissions have been removed. I waited until my truck had about 60,000 miles before I did the tune. I have it on the towing setting and haven't had any problems yet. I don't hot rod the truck though. I can tell you that the oil stays much cleaner now. I would do it all over again.

According the overhead display ( I know its not exact ) I showed 14.5 mpg also pulling a 33' Mountaineer 5th wheel driving about 65 mph.

I run an H&S tuner, besides being able to monitor oil, water & trans temps while towing we also get unreal mileage. On my last trip we averaged 14.5 MPG with the TC and a 12 foot cargo trailer. It was the first thing I added AFTER the warranty was over.

One thing a tuner might do is cut down on the number of injections per combustion cycle. This can increase fuel efficiency but also make the engine noisier. That is what Green Diesel does for the Jeep Liberty CRDs.

Diesel engines are like an old hurricane lamp. turn the flame up, it uses more fuel, and the wick won't last as long.

I have a Banks kit on my 350 horse ISC. with intake and exhaust kits and a programer, we can run 33 pounds of boost and 1350 degrees exhaust temps. (max) do I care if I'm only going to get 500,000 ,miles out of it? (nope) the program in it gives us about 9-11 miles per gallon, (freeway) it will probably take 3,000,000 miles of fuel savings to pay for the Banks stuff, but Oh Well? it was on it when we got it, and I'm not going to remove it.

Did I tell ya? I can top a five mile 6% grade at 55?

From Page 2 of the diesel supplement to my 2013 F350 owner's manual -

POWER STROKE DIESEL ENGINE

Note: Your vehicle’s powertrain control systems can detect and store
information about vehicle modifications that increase horsepower and
torque output such as whether or not performance-enhancing powertrain
components commonly referred to as “performance chips” have been
used. This information cannot be erased and will stay in the system’s
memory even if the modification is removed. The information can be
retrieved by Ford Motor Company, Ford of Canada, and service and
repair facilities when servicing your vehicle. This information may be
used to determine if repairs will be covered by warranty.