Diesel vs gas for truck campers?

A manual transmission does make a good theft deterrent now days, but I just don't see the manufacturers investing money in them to keep up with the current engines. At least I keep my clutching proficiency current with my motorcycle and dune buggy, otherwise I would suffer withdrawals.

^Bedlam, the G56 has the same capacity. Ram only de rates it because of that weak @ss dmf clutch they use.

Ram still offers the 6-speed manual, but derates the engine with that setup verses either automatic it offers. I would be driving a manual if it offered the same capacity as an automatic but already saw the differences when I chose the 5R110 over the ZF in my previous Ford. I have to also agree that this view of manuals being better is due to dated information.

^^ This thinking is very out of date. None of the big three offer a manual anymore for good reasons, one of which is durability. Most urban heavy trucks have automatics these days, for the same reasons.

The Allison was the first (American) transmission to try to emulate some of the utility of a manual, and everyone has gotten much better at it since.

If you haven't driven one of the automatics in a new truck (last 4-5 years) you really can't appreciate how far they have come. I can think of no advantage to an automatic over the Ford 6R140 that I now drive.

The solution to all of that is a manual transmission. They are more durable in virtually every way, even if they don't have the name "Allison" on the side.

The Allison transmission in the pickups has to be the biggest marketing scheme ever. Allison is a subsidiary of GM, and the parts in the transmission that comes in the pickup share nothing with their commercial/heavy duty automatics that come in tracked vehicles and medium/heavy trucks.

I'm sure the transmission is great, but the real Allisons don't have park. The one in the pickups is there because its name sells pickup trucks.

But I don't drive automatics, so I guess I won't be able to get a new truck and will just have to make mine live forever. Which, honestly, given the current cost of new trucks and such, I'm okay with that.

An automatic transmission would never be the solution to make a better pickup truck to me. A 7, 8, or 9 speed manual transmission with at least two overdrives would be excellent, however.

Automatics are fine if you prefer to give up the durability for convenience.

HMS Beagle wrote:
the power of the 8.1 simply cannot compare to the new diesels.

2x...we have towed/hauled with both. No comparison.

Note; when we purchased our current truck the DuraMax was +$1800 compared to the 8.1 gasser with Alli.
Worth every penny.
Bill

I had the GM 8.1L/Allison combination in a motorhome chassis once. That transmission was a breakthrough, and the motor had great power if you let it rev and didn't mind 6-7 mpg. But the Ford 6R140 transmission in my '15 F350 is quite a lot better still, and the power of the 8.1 simply cannot compare to the new diesels.

Vinsil wrote:
While the 8.1/Allison was a great combo, they stopped making those trucks in 2007 and then only had them out for 6 years. If you remember, fuel was at an all time high in this era and diesel was selling more than ever. Point is, as much as it is one of the better gas options, best case IF you can find a clean low mile truck...its 10 years old already.

A better gas option is a Ford V10 having similar numbers in power you can find a newer truck. But the 6.2 ford offers and the 6.4 ram offers today have as much or more power with the side benefit of better economy and can be had in a new truck.

The 8.1 was good but it's old and not many were sold.

Initially, I was looking for a 2008 Duramax/Allison combination, but after looking for a long time gave up on that. (That year had the injector problems solved and didn't have as much of the pollution stuff) Every time I found what I was looking for ... it was already sold.
None of the local dealers had what I wanted either...which surprised me since there are a lot of farm trucks in the area. I had to drive to a big dealer about 120 miles away to be able to test drive what I was interested in.

Vinsil wrote:


A better gas option is a Ford V10 having similar numbers in power you can find a newer truck. But the 6.2 ford offers and the 6.4 ram offers today have as much or more power with the side benefit of better economy and can be had in a new truck.

Yep Brholt's post on page 1 convinced me that a 6.2 ford would work for me.

TOU,
Welcome to the TC forum. I see you joined today. Your tome was a good read and it was obvious to me that you have a lot of experience towing with an assortment of tried and true power plants and trannies. I've always though a GM 454 was a wonderful V-8 to tow stuff with, especially with the old TH400 trans. It is definitely old tech now, so from about 1999 to the end of production I was liking the Ford V-10 and the Dodge V-10 with their massive torque albeit short lived automatic transmissions. I drove a 2005 class C MoHo with the 8.1L GM V-8 engine and newest Allison trans and was amazed how much power and amazing mpg the power plant generated pushing that 29' 15K pound windbreak down the highway. However, having towed a lot can give you a false impression of what it takes to actually carry a truck camper. The TC is a different animal. You need a lot more axle, spring and secondary spring capacity; anti-sway and tire capacity, and wheel capacity on the rear axle as that's where most of the added TC weight resides. These are my new 10" W Stockton Steel 'Power Wagon' Wheels with 1/2" plate hubs and a stupid high capacity for the rear axle along with my new 35", 3860 pound capacity (7720 pound capy for the axle) AT3 tires:

For the largest TC's, this means DRW's, or in my case for 10 years, super singles with high load capacity wheels.

I would say it's a change of paradigm going from towing big loads to carrying big loads. To test my Dodge 2500 with all the weight carrying upgrades I needed a lot of crushed rock for a project and loaded the short bed several times with 5000 pounds of rock. With 3 secondary leaf springs up top, Stable Loads and an added helper in the main pack (8 leaves total) the deflection was 3 inches. As it stands, it's kind of a 3 stage system. Unloaded the ride is a little worse than the stock set up. second, the helper compresses to actuate the stable loads progressively pushing against the 3 upper secondaries. This is when the entire load is carried by all 8 leaves.

The ride did not suffer. No lean in the corners. The Rancho shocks were on 8. The only woe was pulling our 'hill' and I had to keep shifting down to have enough twist to get it up. And, I was happy I did not have to stop that thing going downhill.
I'm liking your V-8 GM thinking, but only if you are NOT going to put a lot of miles on the rig. The low gas prices won't last forever. For pure longevity, endurance and torque for the hills, and for a very long haul (more than 200K miles) the Cummins finally starts to pay for itself and payoff the $5-10K diesel penalty you had to pay . My '01 had only a $4200 diesel penalty at the start of the Diesel Warz. I still like the Cummins power in whatever guise it takes. My next-door neighbor Jim, asked me about my Cummins a few yeas ago as he had a line on a $7K used one of the same year. He bought it with 279K miles on it. It now has 300K miles on the original engine and is going strong. Then again, he has the sucky auto trans for Dodge in 2001. Two doors down my neighbor Ken bought a 1995 Dodge 2500, 4WD V-10 with 60K miles on it. $3500 out the door. It has been bullet proof. Plenty of power and torque if you can keep gas in the tank.
Again, welcome to the TC band. I'm sure you will add a lot to the outlook of this motley crew.
jefe