Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

They are already kinda promoting them. But why would they discourage use? Wouldn’t that just turn away revenue?

If a stray person finds them, sure but actively promoting costs money and since you indicated they aren't high speed, they aren't likely to pick up people driving by...plus most campgrounds are in more isolated areas.

But large scale use, particularly mid summer means they may be looking at power problems unless they can get the govt to pay for massive overbuilding of the system.

I'm not normally a KOA camper, but have used a few times. Most of them appear to be located near routes likely to be used on the way to tourist destinations. Do people spend days in them? Or do they stop, late-afternoon, early evening use the pool/playground fix supper, spend the night, and leave after breakfast? Mid-day place mostly MT. I could see a motel user, traveling with kids, drive for few hours, pull into KOA instead of shopping center to let kids un-whine in playground, while pick up some charge, then head on to the next motel

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

They are already kinda promoting them. But why would they discourage use? Wouldn’t that just turn away revenue?

If a stray person finds them, sure but actively promoting costs money and since you indicated they aren't high speed, they aren't likely to pick up people driving by...plus most campgrounds are in more isolated areas.

But large scale use, particularly mid summer means they may be looking at power problems unless they can get the govt to pay for massive overbuilding of the system.

Ahh I see what you are saying. I would think most EVers would choose other places to charge than an RV park unless they are staying there though.

Re summer use. Yah for sure. Because of course the RV air conditioners would also be on. I guess the other side of that is If someone checks in for 4 days they would probably only be charging the first day though.

But straight up, most of this load stuff is way above my pay grade. Wife and I were both technicians during our Air Force careers but grid loads and calculations of that nature are a completely different world. I’m sure it will get sorted out by people smarter than me. :).

Cheers.

Thermoguy wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

Every time...no but even if we tow 150miles (fairly low end), we are typically filling up before the next travel day.

Reisender wrote:

They are already kinda promoting them. But why would they discourage use? Wouldn’t that just turn away revenue?

If a stray person finds them, sure but actively promoting costs money and since you indicated they aren't high speed, they aren't likely to pick up people driving by...plus most campgrounds are in more isolated areas.

But large scale use, particularly mid summer means they may be looking at power problems unless they can get the govt to pay for massive overbuilding of the system.

JRscooby wrote:


Just trumping up numbers here, but if the cost of the wire is 20% of the upgrade (likely way high) then doubling that cost would raise the total cost 20%. If the CG thinks the bigger RVs, needing 50 AMP would pay for the upgrade in 5 years, then as long as the EVs pay the extra interest, pay-off is 6. Add the possibility of extra tax bennies, and the chance of using some sites mid-week for short times, just charging EVs


Most of the parks (public) I go to are upgrading some sites to 50 every winter.
No as I have said before, if power to the area is limiting factor, it is very likely that other people in the area are also limited for power. Adding solar or wind nearby, and upgrading the lines to put that power on the grid will solve many of those issues.

And I'm saying, the cost of bigger wire is a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of major infrastructure upgrades to a campground. Had to upgrade that job above I was talking about from 10 ga to 8ga on the service legs. "Only" cost $3k in wire. And there's only enough wire on that job for about 2 custom homes.
It's ok, some people don't want to "understand" everything, they just "want it." (same analogy I used earlier)
Do you recall the recent thread on here about a new campground? 75 site or 175 site, or whatever it was, with a $10M price tag.
How much of that do you think was electrical infrastructure? I'd take a rough guess at 20% +. I mean, how much can it cost to do some grading work and run some dump trucks around? (Same mentality you were using, but I'm sure you can relate as a dump truck driver)
So $2M to wire and fire up a new campground. Rebuilding existing infrastructure is never or almost never cheaper than new construction.

Now, to be fair, some campground are in areas with little regulation for environmental and other things, and are far more economical to "improve." But MANY camping areas are in very highly regulated and environmentally sensitive or regulated areas (think Nat Parks).

Again, it's possible, it will happen, things will change, but in the meantime, there's more to it than the Thursday afternoon quarterbacks here are giving it credit for.

Reisender wrote:

The trenching would be the same. The copper cost would be double if they use the KOA approach of a 40 amp EVSE on each pedestal. But really, this is a 30 year transition. If they put EVSE’s on a third of the pedestals they would probably be covered for the next 20 years.

Jmho. Not an expert.

Just trumping up numbers here, but if the cost of the wire is 20% of the upgrade (likely way high) then doubling that cost would raise the total cost 20%. If the CG thinks the bigger RVs, needing 50 AMP would pay for the upgrade in 5 years, then as long as the EVs pay the extra interest, pay-off is 6. Add the possibility of extra tax bennies, and the chance of using some sites mid-week for short times, just charging EVs

wapiticountry wrote:
I have no idea. It would require more service mains and I don’t know how much addition buying and wiring in charging ports would cost. But how many parks are there that are still 30 amp and also are planning on upgrading. I mean having 50 amp services has been pretty much the standard for several decades. If the haven’t already upgraded it is likely because they can’t due to either financial issues or the power just isn’t available. (More common than you think I’m rural locations).

Most of the parks (public) I go to are upgrading some sites to 50 every winter.
No as I have said before, if power to the area is limiting factor, it is very likely that other people in the area are also limited for power. Adding solar or wind nearby, and upgrading the lines to put that power on the grid will solve many of those issues.

JRscooby wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off.

Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need.

You missed the point of my question; A CG has 30 Amp sites, decides they want to have more of the 2 AC units stop instead of going down the road. If they are trenching, and pushing pipe to run the extra wire for the 50 AMP service to sites, how much extra money would it take to also put in charge ports?

I have no idea. It would require more service mains and I don’t know how much addition buying and wiring in charging ports would cost. But how many parks are there that are still 30 amp and also are planning on upgrading. I mean having 50 amp services has been pretty much the standard for several decades. If the haven’t already upgraded it is likely because they can’t due to either financial issues or the power just isn’t available. (More common than you think I’m rural locations).

Reisender wrote:


I haven’t seen any specs on the Ram in question yet, but I would be surprised if it took half that time.

I'm not ok with it taking an hour, either.

There are applications and people that are well suited for the current (no pun intended) EV technology, and there are applications and people for whom the considerable downtime or other considerations are not preferable or even an option.

And, society has molded or adapted it's standards and actions around the virtues and setbacks of one type of technology, the ICE. Changing that considerably can and will take time.

dodge guy wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

I don't fill my tank every time I stop. I have a gauge and it tells me about how far I can go. An EV has a much more accurate gauge. If you use 50% of your battery to get to the site, maybe plugging in for a few hours or overnight to a standard outlet is all you need to get home. Maybe you don't need to plug in at all, maybe there is a quick charge 10-20 miles away, similar to a gas station. The benefit to a campground is many already have electrical service to camp sites. My trailer can go a couple days without plugging in. So, if I had an EV, maybe I plug it in overnight and live life on the boondocking edge with only my batteries...

I feel like everyone here forgets having trucks built in the 70's. Small gas tanks, poor gas mileage. Both of the 70 era trucks I had couldn't drive by a gas station without getting gas. Forget pulling a trailer, this was just the truck by itself. Add a trailer, 8-10 miles to the gallon or less and a small tank. My dually had 2 tanks, but that was special. The truck before that, same engine, but only 1 tank. Driving across state is what put all those small gas stations in little towns in business and thriving. The EV curve is the same, initially they need more ways to charge, but eventually they will have ranges similar or further than an ICE, but as I said 5 pages ago you can charge an EV at home, you can't fill up your ICE at home...

So your OK running the battery down to 10% and then waiting 2 hours for a full charge only to drive another 150 miles to do it all over again? I hope you are patient! We are talking towing here.

I haven’t seen any specs on the Ram in question yet, but I would be surprised if it took half that time. They hint at it having better specs than all the competition so I can’t imagine it not having at least 300 kw charging speed if not fill up 350.

Just a guess. Not an expert.

Thermoguy wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

I don't fill my tank every time I stop. I have a gauge and it tells me about how far I can go. An EV has a much more accurate gauge. If you use 50% of your battery to get to the site, maybe plugging in for a few hours or overnight to a standard outlet is all you need to get home. Maybe you don't need to plug in at all, maybe there is a quick charge 10-20 miles away, similar to a gas station. The benefit to a campground is many already have electrical service to camp sites. My trailer can go a couple days without plugging in. So, if I had an EV, maybe I plug it in overnight and live life on the boondocking edge with only my batteries...

I feel like everyone here forgets having trucks built in the 70's. Small gas tanks, poor gas mileage. Both of the 70 era trucks I had couldn't drive by a gas station without getting gas. Forget pulling a trailer, this was just the truck by itself. Add a trailer, 8-10 miles to the gallon or less and a small tank. My dually had 2 tanks, but that was special. The truck before that, same engine, but only 1 tank. Driving across state is what put all those small gas stations in little towns in business and thriving. The EV curve is the same, initially they need more ways to charge, but eventually they will have ranges similar or further than an ICE, but as I said 5 pages ago you can charge an EV at home, you can't fill up your ICE at home...

So your OK running the battery down to 10% and then waiting 2 hours for a full charge only to drive another 150 miles to do it all over again? I hope you are patient! We are talking towing here.