Forum Discussion
time2roll wrote:
tommyznr wrote:
Similar to surge braking only it goes both ways to stay neutral. No push, no pull.
There are many ways it could be done but none I come up with would be easily implemented for various reasons.
Easier said than done.
Having done some work with car following models, it tends to oscillate. Rather than "no push, no pull" it becomes push then pull in ever stronger attempts to match the leader.
It can be done but it's not a simple problem and if anything goes wrong, you can quickly have a jackknife at freeway speeds.wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Funny, nobody addressed what I thought was really odd about the article on this prototype. Supposedly this thing will "help" the tow vehicle to gain range.
Either the trailer would have to have a large battery and a means of providing power TO the tow vehicle, which currently the EV's are not set up to accept.
Or, it would have it's own drive motors to assist in propulsion.
If it provides propulsion via its own wheels, that will get interesting for how quickly it senses what is needed, and actually how the tow vehicle could end up reacting to the "push" from the trailer. And a flat tire on the trailer would do??????
Also, how heavy will this battery pack have to be? What starts out as a small light trailer will get heavy in a hurry.
Considering the current crop of EVs are heavily over powered and since they have tons of low end torque, I think it would make far more sense to work out some sort of charging bypass system rather than a whole secondary drivetrain that has to be coordinated with the tow vehicle drivetrain.
This would keep the towing mechanics essentially the same as any standard tow vehicle other than an electrical cable from the trailer to the tow vehicle to deliver that power.
Assuming the EV is operating at somewhere around 400v (I believe that is what Tesla uses), dumping 30hp from the trailer battery to the car would be around 55amps. It would need some safety considerations but well within technological capability.
For reference, I ran some numbers and my F250 with V10 needs a bit under 70hp running empty and around 100hp towing a 7000lb trailer. So if the trailer can provide the extra 30hp, you would in theory have the full range of the tow vehicle. Maybe bump it up to 35hp to account for the extra weight of the battery in the trailer but still within reason.
This would require some sort of collaboration with the manufacturer but I'm betting it's just a simple interlock where if you are charging, the car's computer won't put the vehicle in gear, so it should be a relatively simple thing to bypass it.tommyznr wrote:
Similar to surge braking only it goes both ways to stay neutral. No push, no pull.
There are many ways it could be done but none I come up with would be easily implemented for various reasons.- “Would hate to see what will happen if "everyone" drove EV trucks…”
As our forefathers probably said…”I’d like to see what will happen if everyone drove gasoline powered vehicles.” wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Funny, nobody addressed what I thought was really odd about the article on this prototype. Supposedly this thing will "help" the tow vehicle to gain range.
Either the trailer would have to have a large battery and a means of providing power TO the tow vehicle, which currently the EV's are not set up to accept.
Or, it would have it's own drive motors to assist in propulsion.
If it provides propulsion via its own wheels, that will get interesting for how quickly it senses what is needed, and actually how the tow vehicle could end up reacting to the "push" from the trailer. And a flat tire on the trailer would do??????
Also, how heavy will this battery pack have to be? What starts out as a small light trailer will get heavy in a hurry.
This is exactly what I have been pondering since the OP was posted. The trailer can't just push, it has to have smarts to push the right amount.
There are many ways it could be done but none I come up with would be easily implemented for various reasons.Gdetrailer wrote:
Let me know when the RV park starts charging for running a second A/C. (or even three)
Never called anyone out as "thief" but, getting something for "free" is not exactly "free" to someone else.
Absolutely no one gives me gas, electric, phone, my home, my vehicles, my RV or anything for free. No one fills my tank for free, no one gives me food to eat for free.
They are getting more electric than many of us. Is that wrong? Who decides? Am I paying for that?Reisender wrote:
No idea and way out of my league. We are just RVers who like to travel and camp. But there are lots of RVers in trailers our size. We were in some campgrounds along the way where probably half of the rigs were SUV's or half tons or whatever towing trailers our size. of course 50 amp sites are kinda rare up here.
Self explanatory.
The gray is freebie charging. So in the driveway at the inlaws, touristy places with free charging and of course campgrounds. At least for our kind of combo I would say 10 to 30 kwh would be normal, depending on if we were visiting or travelling.
Anyway, hope this is useful info. I'm not interested in a toxic conversation or being referred to as a thief or freeloader so I'll leave this thread after this. Life is too short. :)
Safe travels and happy camping all. :)
Not being "toxic", but if pointing flaws and short comings of the EVs is toxic conversation, well not my fault.
Never called anyone out as "thief" but, getting something for "free" is not exactly "free" to someone else.
Absolutely no one gives me gas, electric, phone, my home, my vehicles, my RV or anything for free. No one fills my tank for free, no one gives me food to eat for free.
Touting "free electric charging" anywhere is a "red herring" which redirects what really happens into a scenario that by outside appearances make it look better to outside people without looking bad.
Reality says, someone had to pay to build the electric plants, the distribution system, the maintenance and operation of system.. It didn't build it's self for free.. The money came from someone else's pockets.. Who's pockets? Everyone that lives and breathes.
What you are doing works great for you, but sadly, it isn't going to work for everyone and someone else gets to pay for your enjoyment.Gdetrailer wrote:
Reisender wrote:
Ultimately it’s up to the campground. So far none have had an issue with it. Like I said though, we generally only rent 30 amp sites so it’s not like I can suck up more than 25 or 30 kilowatts over night.
It hasn’t been an issue for us. Can’t speak for others though.
Cheers.
Consider this..
Campground I recently stayed at, 5,200 camping sites, all with 30A/50A hookups..
That's up to 12Kw per site x 5,200 sites = 62,400,000 Kw potential usage..
Now double that to accommodate every site with EV charging plus RV..
124,800,000 Kwhr potential usage...
Was there during a long heat spell, was 95+F in the shade, voltage was sagging to 108V at times and campground was about 90% full..
Granted, not everyone has a RV with 50A, mine is 30A but still, as it is, there is no surplus of electric at campgrounds as of now.
Would hate to see what will happen if "everyone" drove EV trucks and tried getting a freebee charge there plus 5,200 sites with A/Cs buzzing to the max in the middle of Summer.. To make this even more realistic, that campground since it is near a large tourist draw has LARGE FAMILIES come in which often require separate vehicles.. Now you must accommodate extra vehicles per site.. Not all would want or need charging but if it is free, it most likely will be used..
While what you do works for 1-2 people, isn't going to scale up evenly or equally for a family of 6-8...
No idea and way out of my league. We are just RVers who like to travel and camp. But there are lots of RVers in trailers our size. We were in some campgrounds along the way where probably half of the rigs were SUV's or half tons or whatever towing trailers our size. of course 50 amp sites are kinda rare up here.
Anyway, here is a graph of our usage for the first 31 days or maybe 7200 kilometres of our last trip. The app only tracks 31 days max with a sliding window so the second half of our trip is not represented here.
The blue is home charging. Obviously none as we were on the road.
The red is supercharging. Self explanatory.
The gray is freebie charging. So in the driveway at the inlaws, touristy places with free charging and of course campgrounds. At least for our kind of combo I would say 10 to 30 kwh would be normal, depending on if we were visiting or travelling.
Anyway, hope this is useful info. I'm not interested in a toxic conversation or being referred to as a thief or freeloader so I'll leave this thread after this. Life is too short. :)
Safe travels and happy camping all. :)- Not being grumpy about everything new, I like the concept.
"This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite."
Give it some time. Gasoline stations took a while to establish too. Reisender wrote:
Ultimately it’s up to the campground. So far none have had an issue with it. Like I said though, we generally only rent 30 amp sites so it’s not like I can suck up more than 25 or 30 kilowatts over night.
It hasn’t been an issue for us. Can’t speak for others though.
Cheers.
Consider this..
Campground I recently stayed at, 5,200 camping sites, all with 30A/50A hookups..
That's up to 12Kw per site x 5,200 sites = 62,400,000 Kw potential usage..
Now double that to accommodate every site with EV charging plus RV..
124,800,000 Kwhr potential usage...
Was there during a long heat spell, was 95+F in the shade, voltage was sagging to 108V at times and campground was about 90% full..
Granted, not everyone has a RV with 50A, mine is 30A but still, as it is, there is no surplus of electric at campgrounds as of now.
Would hate to see what will happen if "everyone" drove EV trucks and tried getting a freebee charge there plus 5,200 sites with A/Cs buzzing to the max in the middle of Summer.. To make this even more realistic, that campground since it is near a large tourist draw has LARGE FAMILIES come in which often require separate vehicles.. Now you must accommodate extra vehicles per site.. Not all would want or need charging but if it is free, it most likely will be used..
While what you do works for 1-2 people, isn't going to scale up evenly or equally for a family of 6-8...
