EV's I know there are folks better versed than me in here

BenK wrote:
Kinda sorta for now...but...

Recycling of used Lithium batteries hasn't even hit its stride yet...
https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-recycling-lithium/97/i28
https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-recycling-lithium/97/i28

Then the largest lithium mine in the USA, but hasn't begun to mine yet.
https://investingtrends.com/AWLIF/the-lithium-wars-us-vs-china/?utm_campaign=AWLIF_BF&utm_source=82507&utm_medium=search&gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthAGakD2FIQz6dTX7G6QT1u5W09repC3szTZeajFKH4nqVzhxJdg59RoC5DMQAvD_BwE
https://investingtrends.com/AWLIF/the-lithium-wars-us-vs-china/?utm_campaign=AWLIF_BF&utm_source=82507&utm_medium=search&gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthAGakD2FIQz6dTX7G6QT1u5W09repC3szTZeajFKH4nqVzhxJdg59RoC5DMQAvD_BwE


California has a huge potential source and hasn't begun to mine yet
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-19/california-s-salton-sea-could-contain-lithium-for-electric-car-batteries
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-19/california-s-salton-sea-could-contain-lithium-for-electric-car-batteries

Then there is the Peruvian lithium potential
https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/falchani-lithium-project-puno/
https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/falchani-lithium-project-puno/


At the bottom of the Pacific Ocean are nodules of precious metals
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/20000-feet-under-the-sea/603040/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/20000-feet-under-the-sea/603040/


China is the 'current' largest source of lithium and they are playing it very, very well. The general public has taken that hook line and sinker.

Not just lithium either. As the other rare metales are in the contacts and the why so many are researching into using iron or more common metal.


Does anyone remember that we were suppposed to have run out of crude by now? They have been 'finding' new areas all the time. Note that all of the charts/graphs/etc has fine print : "know reserves"...

Thermoguy wrote:
Tesla's supplier of batteries are made by Contemporary Amperex Technology Co out of China. The Lithium used comes from mostly China but also South America. The Lithium mines in the US do not supply enough Lithium for cars, so not used by any car battery manufacturer. I have been researching Lithium battery companies for about a year, and this is what I read every time I come across info on EV's.

Edit...wacky in that the clickable link doesn't work...so use the real address if you want to read those articles

Thank you for making my point - the resources are not US so, not made in America. And, the environmental hazards with these batteries are huge - so not so green. It will be years before any Lithium is mined in the US due to environmental protection, but in other countries like China, they can strip mine all they want. Same with south America, so many like to call oil production bad for the environment, but the raw minerals for battery production is very bad if not worst.

I have seen that Sodium Ion is a possible future battery for cars. This is much less harmful than Lithium but doesn't hold the power, or requires a larger battery. So, this is a ways off.

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Reisender wrote:
...

Tesla exports the majority of the cars it builds in the US. This wouldn’t be possible if Tesla didn’t import raw materials from other countries.

I wish you could back this up with Tesla investor data. Like real SEC reports. Tesla only provides world-wide production and sales information. Tesla does not provide country level data like other vehicle manufactures. Would be

Yah. True. Tesla does not report sales by country. Straight up, my numbers come from an investors forum I participate in and the number I gave was for year 2020. Those numbers are derived from adding up sales in other countries and subtracting from total sales. I’m sure they are approximate numbers as there are no official numbers.

I think export numbers for 2021 will probably be considerably lower as Tesla China is now fulfilling a lot of those markets. And in 2022 Tesla Germany will fill a lot of the European market demand. Tesla Texas is expected to cater mainly to North American demand. The hope is that this will trim the 8 month waiting list for cars in North America.

So yes. You are correct. I can not verify those numbers.

Cheers.

Reisender wrote:
...

Tesla exports the majority of the cars it builds in the US. This wouldn’t be possible if Tesla didn’t import raw materials from other countries.

I wish you could back this up with Tesla investor data. Like real SEC reports. Tesla only provides world-wide production and sales information. Tesla does not provide country level data like other vehicle manufactures. Would be

I just read my previous post. A correction.

The 2170 cells are used in the 3 and Y. Made in Nevada.

The 1865 cells are used in the S and X and are imported from Panasonic Japan. The packs are assembled in Nevada.

Kinda sorta for now...but...

Recycling of used Lithium batteries hasn't even hit its stride yet...
https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-recycling-lithium/97/i28
https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-recycling-lithium/97/i28

Then the largest lithium mine in the USA, but hasn't begun to mine yet.
https://investingtrends.com/AWLIF/the-lithium-wars-us-vs-china/?utm_campaign=AWLIF_BF&utm_source=82507&utm_medium=search&gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthAGakD2FIQz6dTX7G6QT1u5W09repC3szTZeajFKH4nqVzhxJdg59RoC5DMQAvD_BwE
https://investingtrends.com/AWLIF/the-lithium-wars-us-vs-china/?utm_campaign=AWLIF_BF&utm_source=82507&utm_medium=search&gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthAGakD2FIQz6dTX7G6QT1u5W09repC3szTZeajFKH4nqVzhxJdg59RoC5DMQAvD_BwE


California has a huge potential source and hasn't begun to mine yet
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-19/california-s-salton-sea-could-contain-lithium-for-electric-car-batteries
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-19/california-s-salton-sea-could-contain-lithium-for-electric-car-batteries

Then there is the Peruvian lithium potential
https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/falchani-lithium-project-puno/
https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/falchani-lithium-project-puno/


At the bottom of the Pacific Ocean are nodules of precious metals
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/20000-feet-under-the-sea/603040/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/20000-feet-under-the-sea/603040/


China is the 'current' largest source of lithium and they are playing it very, very well. The general public has taken that hook line and sinker.

Not just lithium either. As the other rare metales are in the contacts and the why so many are researching into using iron or more common metal.


Does anyone remember that we were suppposed to have run out of crude by now? They have been 'finding' new areas all the time. Note that all of the charts/graphs/etc has fine print : "know reserves"...

Thermoguy wrote:
Tesla's supplier of batteries are made by Contemporary Amperex Technology Co out of China. The Lithium used comes from mostly China but also South America. The Lithium mines in the US do not supply enough Lithium for cars, so not used by any car battery manufacturer. I have been researching Lithium battery companies for about a year, and this is what I read every time I come across info on EV's.

Edit...wacky in that the clickable link doesn't work...so use the real address if you want to read those articles

Thermoguy wrote:
Tesla's supplier of batteries are made by Contemporary Amperex Technology Co out of China. The Lithium used comes from mostly China but also South America. The Lithium mines in the US do not supply enough Lithium for cars, so not used by any car battery manufacturer. I have been researching Lithium battery companies for about a year, and this is what I read every time I come across info on EV's.

Tesla battery packs for cars built in the US are built under contract by Panasonic in the Giga factory in Nevada.

Raw materials and some 2170 cells used in the S and X are imported from other countries just like any car manufacturer.

Some new standard range model 3’s can be optioned with an LFP battery pack built in China by CAT.

The Chinese Tesla factory builds Teslas with battery packs and cells from China. Many from CAT.

Tesla exports the majority of the cars it builds in the US. This wouldn’t be possible if Tesla didn’t import raw materials from other countries.

Thermoguy wrote:
Lithium is more hazardous than oil and LI-ION batteries are catching fire burning down garages and houses. How many times has an ICE burned down a house for no reason other than just sitting there? Buy American - but buy American and don't hide the fact that the most important part - the battery is Chinese...

I'm not really part of this discussion, nor do I care to be, but how many times has an ICE powered vehicle burned down for no apparent reason?
My answer would be once.
Dad's 85 Chevy C10. Caught fire in the middle of the night, no apparent foul play (I guess, I'm not CSI and the insurance company paid out without issue). Burned through the garage door, burned down our garage and 2 other vehicles.
Almost got into the house (attached garage, good thing we didn't cheat on the fire wall).

Tesla's supplier of batteries are made by Contemporary Amperex Technology Co out of China. The Lithium used comes from mostly China but also South America. The Lithium mines in the US do not supply enough Lithium for cars, so not used by any car battery manufacturer. I have been researching Lithium battery companies for about a year, and this is what I read every time I come across info on EV's.

Thermoguy wrote:
I didn't listen to the entire video, but he left out some important parts - not American built. First, electronics don't come from America - he mentioned that, all cars have Chinese built components so Tesla is not different, although they might have more electronics than other cars. But, how about the batteries. These come from China. They are shipped to the US in ships, not unlike shipping oil to the US from foreign countries. Tesla is building a US manufacturing plant, but the Lithium and other hazardous materials in the batteries will be shipped from China and South America to the US. What happens if one of these ships sinks? Lithium does not float like oil. What will this do the oceans? There is not enough Lithium in the US or in the world to support the batteries in EV's. It is not a renewable resource and is not as abundant as oil. I know they are working on new battery technologies, but none have been found to be as good as Lithium. We can hope they get better, but that is a ways off for now. Lithium is more hazardous than oil and LI-ION batteries are catching fire burning down garages and houses. How many times has an ICE burned down a house for no reason other than just sitting there? Buy American - but buy American and don't hide the fact that the most important part - the battery is Chinese...

Most Tesla cars built in the US have batteries built in the giga factory in Nevada.

I didn't listen to the entire video, but he left out some important parts - not American built. First, electronics don't come from America - he mentioned that, all cars have Chinese built components so Tesla is not different, although they might have more electronics than other cars. But, how about the batteries. These come from China. They are shipped to the US in ships, not unlike shipping oil to the US from foreign countries. Tesla is building a US manufacturing plant, but the Lithium and other hazardous materials in the batteries will be shipped from China and South America to the US. What happens if one of these ships sinks? Lithium does not float like oil. What will this do the oceans? There is not enough Lithium in the US or in the world to support the batteries in EV's. It is not a renewable resource and is not as abundant as oil. I know they are working on new battery technologies, but none have been found to be as good as Lithium. We can hope they get better, but that is a ways off for now. Lithium is more hazardous than oil and LI-ION batteries are catching fire burning down garages and houses. How many times has an ICE burned down a house for no reason other than just sitting there? Buy American - but buy American and don't hide the fact that the most important part - the battery is Chinese...