Forum Discussion
Lessmore wrote:
Read that today. Will be interesting to see what happens. If it did happen FCA and Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi...whatever they would call it would be relatively huge.
Part of the reason for considering I've read is to consolidate costs regarding R+D, particularly now that the age of the EV seems to be looming ever closer, mostly due to different countries in the world, legislation requiring EV vehicles.
FCA and Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi it would seem need to consolidate...merge...whatever term fits...to become as competitive as they possibly can be in this quickly changing automotive world.
GM and Ford, Toyota and Honda are about the only companies that haven't merged with other manufacturers in a big way...and for the first time, I'm starting to think that they too, may well have to consolidate/merge sometime in the future.
Lessee...GM/Ford...Toyota/Honda...or maybe GM/Toyota....or Ford/Honda. Just speculation, but it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 10-15 years.
As an aside the names would be interesting...would Ford and Honda be Fonda, would GM and Toyota would be ...well I'm not sure. ;)
VW has an alliance with Ford to use their underutilised factories to build Vans and probably the next Amarok, I would guess in Englandwilber1 wrote:
Had a buddy who owned a Renault R8 Gordini back in the late sixties. That was a quick little car.
I entered a contest at a Hudson's Bay Company store, around 1970-71 or so. First prize was a Renault R8. The contest was put on by the company that made Can Can Hosiery and if my memory is correct the idea was to launch this new line of women's stockings that had the French name of 'Can Can' and promote the French aspect by offering a French car, the Renault R8 as first prize.
I was at the store near closing, with my then girlfriend. She joked me into entering and I figured why not...I was a poor U. student with no car...so I entered, hoping to win the R8.
An hour later or so, I just got home, the phone rang and it was somebody from Hudson's Bay. They indicated that I was a winner. My heart leapt...for an instant..thinking I had won the Renault, when they told me, no, but I had won 2nd prize...5o pair of hosiery.
Anyways, my grandmother was able to sell 45 pair of the hosiery at @ dollar a pair. The other 5 I split between my sister and girlfriend.
I made about $ 45 on it, not bad money in 1970-71. :B- Had a buddy who owned a Renault R8 Gordini back in the late sixties. That was a quick little car.
westernrvparkowner wrote:
AMEN! They can combine all their junk with the other ones junk. This will be a boon for the scrap metal industry.
Hopefully a merger would mean a return of Renault to the US market. A LeCar or a Fuego makes a great gift to give to your enemies. Not a better paperweight anywhere.
B.O.Lessmore wrote:
wilber1 wrote:
Lessmore wrote:
Wilber1,
I didn't know that the Jeep Cherokee, Compass and Renegade are based of Fiat platforms as are their four cylinder engines.
A family member bought a new 2014 Jeep Patriot Trail Rated(similar to Compass, but different body) with the 2.4 liter engine which was used by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai. I wasn't aware of the Fiat connection to the engine.
The engine was ok, but underpowered for the weight of the vehicle. He did have lots of issues with many other components of this car, particularity the transmission (CVT) and suspension, so much so that he traded it in on a new Nissan Pro4 X Frontier pickup, 4 liter V6, which touch wood, has had not one issue since purchase a couple of years ago.
Les
The Patriot was discontinued in 2017. It has been replace with the second generation Compass. The CVT is gone. The current 2.4 Tigershark is a Chrysler Fiat co designed engine as is the 2.O Turbo. It also depends on the country. European Compass and Renegade also use 1.4L and 1.6L turbos and 2.0L diesels from Fiat.
He had the CVT transmission...boy was that a huge ongoing issue...and we found out afterwards a known issue for Chrysler.
Thx for the info on the new FCA engines. Wonder how reliable they are.
We tend to look at these things from a strictly North American point of view. These companies are looking at world markets.wilber1 wrote:
Lessmore wrote:
Wilber1,
I didn't know that the Jeep Cherokee, Compass and Renegade are based of Fiat platforms as are their four cylinder engines.
A family member bought a new 2014 Jeep Patriot Trail Rated(similar to Compass, but different body) with the 2.4 liter engine which was used by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai. I wasn't aware of the Fiat connection to the engine.
The engine was ok, but underpowered for the weight of the vehicle. He did have lots of issues with many other components of this car, particularity the transmission (CVT) and suspension, so much so that he traded it in on a new Nissan Pro4 X Frontier pickup, 4 liter V6, which touch wood, has had not one issue since purchase a couple of years ago.
Les
The Patriot was discontinued in 2017. It has been replace with the second generation Compass. The CVT is gone. The current 2.4 Tigershark is a Chrysler Fiat co designed engine as is the 2.O Turbo. It also depends on the country. European Compass and Renegade also use 1.4L and 1.6L turbos and 2.0L diesels from Fiat.
He had the CVT transmission...boy was that a huge ongoing issue...and we found out afterwards a known issue for Chrysler.
Thx for the info on the new FCA engines. Wonder how reliable they are.Lessmore wrote:
Wilber1,
I didn't know that the Jeep Cherokee, Compass and Renegade are based of Fiat platforms as are their four cylinder engines.
A family member bought a new 2014 Jeep Patriot Trail Rated(similar to Compass, but different body) with the 2.4 liter engine which was used by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai. I wasn't aware of the Fiat connection to the engine.
The engine was ok, but underpowered for the weight of the vehicle. He did have lots of issues with many other components of this car, particularity the transmission (CVT) and suspension, so much so that he traded it in on a new Nissan Pro4 X Frontier pickup, 4 liter V6, which touch wood, has had not one issue since purchase a couple of years ago.
Les
The Patriot was discontinued in 2017. It has been replace with the second generation Compass. The CVT is gone. The current 2.4 Tigershark is a Chrysler Fiat co designed engine as is the 2.O Turbo. It also depends on the country. European Compass and Renegade also use 1.4L and 1.6L turbos and 2.0L diesels from Fiat.- Wilber1,
I didn't know that the Jeep Cherokee, Compass and Renegade are based of Fiat platforms as are their four cylinder engines.
A family member bought a new 2014 Jeep Patriot Trail Rated(similar to Compass, but different body) with the 2.4 liter engine which was used by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai. I wasn't aware of the Fiat connection to the engine.
The engine was ok, but underpowered for the weight of the vehicle. He did have lots of issues with many other components of this car, particularity the transmission (CVT) and suspension, so much so that he traded it in on a new Nissan Pro4 X Frontier pickup, 4 liter V6, which touch wood, has had not one issue since purchase a couple of years ago.
Les Lessmore wrote:
I do remember when Chrysler and Mercedes 'merged'. Originally I thought it was supposed to be a merger of equals, but as it developed that didn't seem to be the case. Chrysler benefited with Mercedes attention to the Chrysler 300 RWD platform...which some say might be one of the best platforms that Chrysler has had. Other benefits from the merger, I don't know.
Now that Fiat and Chrysler have joined forces, I wonder what Fiat has brought to the North American operations of Chrysler and what has Chrysler brought to Fiat ?
I can think of the commercial van, based on a Fiat that has replaced the Mercedes Sprinter and in use in NA. But what else?
I'm sure the word from FCA will be or has been...that all sorts of R+D that both companies working together in a cooperative venture(s)...and which will result in developing new technology that will be mutually beneficial to both companies and the consumer. I apologize for sounding too PR.
Are Fiat and Chrysler a good fit ?
Could you imagine Honda joining FCA ?
I could see Kia/Hyundai joining FCA.
But sometimes you never know. As the old saying goes ...politics makes for strange bedfellows and I guess the same can be said of automotive companies...when tough times are forecast for the future.
The two companies I'm unsure of where their future lies, is that of Ford and General Motors.
They are still independent companies, they are large companies with great histories. They have made the decision to cancel their sedans, focus on SUV/trucks and plan to have a dominant EV presence in oncoming years.
Are they going to continue to go it alone, will they partner up with other companies, will they partner up with each other ?
They already have worked on a couple of transmissions...FWD automatic, RWD automatic. Aside from developing a couple of transmissions together...was this transmission cooperative
venture also about seeing how they 'fit' together...with future considerations a factor ?
Jeep Cherokee, Compass and Renegade are based of Fiat platforms as are their four cylinder engines.FishOnOne wrote:
Lessmore wrote:
I do remember when Chrysler and Mercedes 'merged'. Originally I thought it was supposed to be a merger of equals, but as it developed that didn't seem to be the case. Chrysler benefited with Mercedes attention to the Chrysler 300 RWD platform...which some say might be one of the best platforms that Chrysler has had. Other benefits from the merger, I don't know.
Now that Fiat and Chrysler have joined forces, I wonder what Fiat has brought to the North American operations of Chrysler and what has Chrysler brought to Fiat ?
I can think of the commercial van, based on a Fiat that has replaced the Mercedes Sprinter and in use in NA. But what else?
I'm sure the word from FCA will be or has been...that all sorts of R+D that both companies working together in a cooperative venture(s)...and which will result in developing new technology that will be mutually beneficial to both companies and the consumer. I apologize for sounding too PR.
Are Fiat and Chrysler a good fit ?
Could you imagine Honda joining FCA ?
I could see Kia/Hyundai joining FCA.
But sometimes you never know. As the old saying goes ...politics makes for strange bedfellows and I guess the same can be said of automotive companies...when tough times are forecast for the future.
The two companies I'm unsure of where their future lies, is that of Ford and General Motors.
They are still independent companies, they are large companies with great histories. They have made the decision to cancel their sedans, focus on SUV/trucks and plan to have a dominant EV presence in oncoming years.
Are they going to continue to go it alone, will they partner up with other companies, will they partner up with each other ?
They already have worked on a couple of transmissions...FWD automatic, RWD automatic. Aside from developing a couple of transmissions together...was this transmission cooperative venture also about seeing how they 'fit' together...with future considerations a factor ?
Daimler was also responsible for the 4th gen Ram
Fiat benefitted from some funds that the Chrysler group had. Fiat also appears to be using it profits from it profitable divisions (Ram and Jeep)to keep it's non profitable divisions in business. The exceptions are Chrysler and Dodge divisions in which there days are numbered.
Ford.... I think getting rid of it's car line is a short term gain, but I don't know how they'll meet CAFE requirements without them unless they plan on being successful with their future EV products. At least they were smart to plan on introducing new products to keep those factories alive. Eventually they'll need pay the piper and get back into the car line again when fuel prices hit a particular price point or if the market doesn't except EV.
GM.... Well I'm really surprised that Mary Barra is still behind the helm. And if I were in charge the first thing I would want to know is who is the designer/s of the current Camaro, Silverado 1500 and HD, and Blazer and who approved them. I think you know where I'm going with this one.
As for mergers they are very rarely equal. One will always dominate.
I agree with everything you have said. In particular regard to GM, I've been a long time GM guy, pretty well since the late '60's with a few exceptions. I recall the 1950's and 1960's when GM was renowned and world class when it came to design, both style and mechanicals. They were bold, innovative and seemingly had that 'magic' touch when it came to vehicles. Looking at the company and judging them on a number of criteria, I believe they set world class standards in a number of areas.
But that was many years ago and in my view they have slipped. They still have some great mechanicals (LS engine design comes to mind) but is other aspects they don't seem to be at the forefront, as they were back then. I could be looking at this the wrong way, it maybe a case of GM not slipping so much, but simply the other manufacturers throughout the world raising their game.
I sometimes do wonder if GM is designing vehicles more for the larger Chinese market...then for the smaller NA market. Business is business. The push towards EV... seems to be accelerating (zero emissions by certain dates) is coming up faster in other parts of the world and GM and Ford don't want to be left.
